J Green Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 As Deputy Commander for the 300th Military Intelligence Brigade (Linguist), I've been planning a 50th Anniversary celebration of the founding of the 142nd Military Intelligence Company (now a battalion) in Feb 1960 at Fort Douglas, Utah. Looking through our historical files, I found a few pictures from a serviceman's group meeting held at Camp Williams in September 1960, when Elder Joseph Fielding Smith visited with the troops. I love the support the Brethren have given the good men and women in uniform over the years.
Duncan Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 That is a pretty cool snapshot! I love Pres. Smith!
J Green Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Apparently the invocation was given in German, benediction in Spanish, sacrament prayers in Dutch and French, and various musical numbers in selected languages. The unit was very Euro-centric in its language mix back then. These days our language focus is a lot different.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I love the support the Brethren have given the good men and women in uniform over the years.so, why is this good again? unless he went there to convince those guys of the mistake of joining the military.
Anijen Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 so, why is this good again? unless he went there to convince those guys of the mistake of joining the military.Mistake? I think you are digressing from the nature of this thread. I also would think there are a few here who are offended with your statement, me being one.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Mistake? I think you are digressing from the nature of this thread. I also would think there are a few here who are offended with your statement, me being one.nothing in the OP seems like being intended to incite discussion except from us saying "that's a cool picture;" nothing except the sentence that I criticized. socializing is supposed to go, I believe, in the Social Hall. about you being offended... why would you?
Anijen Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 nothing in the OP seems like being intended to incite discussion except from us saying "that's a cool picture;" nothing except the sentence that I criticized. socializing is supposed to go, I believe, in the Social Hall. about you being offended... why would you?You make the statement "the mistake of joining the military" and then ask why would I be offended. I don't know, how about these reasons for a start;1. Our country was won by patriots who gave their life for freedom.2.My Dad is the recipient of not one but two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, Silver Star,and the Distinguished Service Cross, he didn't get the medal of honor but give me a break. He seen many friends die for this country.3. Joining the military offered him a distinguished career and paid for his college.Need I go on?
Mike Reed Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 You make the statement "the mistake of joining the military" and then ask why would I be offended. I don't know, how about these reasons for a start;1. Our country was won by patriots who gave their life for freedom.Was it won by the Vietnam War? I think Vietnam was a mistake, as do a lot of people.
handys003 Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Was it won by the Vietnam War? I think Vietnam was a mistake, as do a lot of people.It's a mistake not to support those who may or will die in a war. They are military following the orders of political which all US citizens are involved. It's not a mistake to be those ready to defend your country. It's a mistake by those thrusting the military to do what is unrealistic.
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Even a pacifist ought to realise that this was the era of the draft.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 You make the statement "the mistake of joining the military" and then ask why would I be offended. I don't know, how about these reasons for a start;1. Our country was won by patriots who gave their life for freedom.well... the picture is not of those so-called 'patriots' that you mention that won the country. the military spends more time and money in imperialistic crusades for resources and profit for a few than in defending anyone. why would it be good for a leader of the true Church to support those that mistakenly participate in such crimes against humanity? don't get me wrong, those guys don't have all fault, but to take part in crimes with a mask of "patriotism" does not seem praise worthy for me. 2.My Dad is the recipient of not one but two Purple Hearts, a Bronze Star, Silver Star,and the Distinguished Service Cross, he didn't get the medal of honor but give me a break. He seen many friends die for this country.if I play in a system that is unjust and I play it well, of course they are going to reward me. 3. Joining the military offered him a distinguished career and paid for his college.drug selling can also pay for my career so as many other activities. is that a justification for drug-selling?Need I go on?if you want, but please realize that I am mainly criticizing our Church's leaders that do nothing to denounce the crimes political leaders command and instead give their full support to those that throw the bombs and bullets.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Even a pacifist ought to realise that this was the era of the draft.so? even if half the country joins the military, does that make it any less wrong?
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 It's a mistake not to support those who may or will die in a war. so, this means you support terrorism, right? because they die in wars too. They are military following the orders of political which all US citizens are involved. I agree.It's not a mistake to be those ready to defend your country. the problem is they are not defending my country but attacking and destroying other countries for reasons that we would never support.It's a mistake by those thrusting the military to do what is unrealistic.why is it unrealistic to stop support for terrorist activities perpetrated by our own country? was it unrealistic to not support the policemen that repressed minorities in the 1950's? and what is even worst, our leaders tell us we should support that kind of people... I find that unrealistic, for me.
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 so? even if half the country joins the military, does that make it any less wrong?Sigh. What is a draft?
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Sigh. What is a draft?a. The process or method of selecting one or more individuals from a group, as for a service or duty
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Is it something the individual is free to turn down?
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Is it something the individual is free to turn down?legally, no. in reality, yes.
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 legally, no. in reality, yes.Out of curiosity, have you or would you do the same?
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I don't know how the system worked in the USA of 1960, but where I'm from draft-dodging solves nothing. You go to jail, which adversley affects your future, and you still have to serve the amount of time required in the military AFTER serving a jail sentence.The sad reality is that no nation can afford to be without a military. Even Monaco, Andorra and the Vatican have them.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 Out of curiosity, have you or would you do the same?do you mean by 'do the same' to turn down a draft? I would be committing a worst crime to accept it. just so we see the absurdity of such action: that is like me telling someone that either they kill some people I want dead or I put them in jail...?? the Church leaders tell us that is what we should accept; I am not going to.
elguanteloko Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I don't know how the system worked in the USA of 1960, but where I'm from draft-dodging solves nothing. You go to jail, which adversley affects your future, and you still have to serve the amount of time required in the military AFTER serving a jail sentence.The sad reality is that no nation can afford to be without a military. Even Monaco, Andorra and the Vatican have them.what about organized mass protests against unjust wars? civil disobedience is always an option. they want you to shoot? don't shoot. they want you to bomb? don't bomb. they want to you walk? don't walk. I am not against a military per se but against the systems that control it. until the working class controls the military and their own governments, then we can talk about the military serving some good purpose.
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 do you mean by 'do the same' to turn down a draft? I would be committing a worst crime to accept it. just so we see the absurdity of such action: that is like me telling someone that either they kill some people I want dead or I put them in jail...?? the Church leaders tell us that is what we should accept; I am not going to.A simple yes or no would suffice.The church leaders teach us to follow the laws of the land in most cases. What you are talking about simply put is not the case in the USA.
volgadon Posted February 12, 2010 Posted February 12, 2010 I am not against a military per se but against the systems that control it. until the working class controls the military and their own governments, then we can talk about the military serving some good purpose. Ridiculous nonsense. The working class will have its own beefs and power struggles and politics if it becomes the ruling class, pure and simple. The idea of the purity of one class over the other is utterly absurd the moment we pause to consider that classes are made up of human beings with human frailties.Anyway, Mikhail Bulgakov was a lot more eloquent than I am. I suggest you read A Dog's Heart, or at least watch the movie.
J Green Posted February 12, 2010 Author Posted February 12, 2010 Regardless of what others think of the military, I'd like to re-focus this again on the support the Brethren give to our LDS service members.When I went to Iraq in 2003, we simply had a number of us who had been set apart as group leaders. Near the end of my fifteen-month deployment, I had moved to Doha, Qatar to help set up and run the document exploitation effort for the war. Elder Bruce C. Hafen came and met with the soldiers and airmen who were stationed there. What a great support that was during that time. It meant a lot to us.While in Afghanistan last year, the First Presidency decided to actually create a military district. The difference between my Iraq experience couldn't have been greater because now we had all the keys and all the programs. We had a 300-member branch on Bagram Air Base, with brother Corby Campbell as our branch president. We ran an addiction recovery program, had home teaching, choir, family home evening, and everything else. Elder Holland tried numerous times to visit Afghanistan to visit, but was denied by the State Department. Right when I came home, I attended a taping of his talk that was part of a virtual District Conference for service members in Afghanistan. Great stuff.The Brethren have always supported the men and women in uniform. I love that about them.
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