Joseph Fielding Smith

[HMX-1]

BTW I should've added those who may get maimed or wounded also. Faux Pas on my part to any Vets out there. I'm also suprised HMX-1 hasn't ripped into this topic yet.

Handy,

Thanks for the shout out! It's my one year aniversary in here. Seems like everytime I try to post in here lately no matter the time of day or night, subject or content, the entire Moderation team is alerted and they go to General quarters! Never the Less, as for elquanteloky, I refuse to crawl beneath 30 feet of Whale Defication to get on this guys level and wouldn't even consider dignifing his remarks with a comment. He's trying to draw everyone in. Besides, he has at least two sockpuppets in here that I have been able to find. All I can do is feel deeply sorry for him and people like him. Especially if they have or are Pro-creating. Thanks for a great friendship Bruddah!

HMX-1 (This is the closest thing I can get to a salute)

[elguanteloko]

Stop twisting the context of the sentence. No I don't support terrorism as you want to define it.

I know you don't, but you would have to support any type of terrorism in order for your original statement to be true. if you say that it is a mistake not to support those that may die in war then you have to support terrorists abroad too because they also may die in war... oh, wait! I forgot we only apply these standards to the U.S. forces that may die in war. see? I corrected it for you.

I support our kids.

I support them by not supporting the system that misinforms them and makes them believe that joining the military is somehow good or praiseworthy when in reality it serves as a tool for terrorism.

No one wants to kill, or die in any war.

not sure about this one. jihadists surely want to die in war.

However they are obligated to go where the civilian government tells them.

this is as convincing as saying that police officers are obligated to arrest people who refuse to pay taxes or that I should bring my Jew neighbor to the murderous Nazis because Hitler told me to.

They only wish to get a job, and learn a trade, or get an education,

and I am sure going to invade and kill others is the best way to get an education, right?

all while preparing to defend the country.

again, few times has the military defended us from something more than they have incited violence and terrorism all around the world... besides perpetrating terrorist actions themselves.

There is nothing wrong in preparing and willing to defend your country.

I agree, though how you think this is done may be a problem.

Good. Then you should have not asserted I was for terrorism.

I already clarified this.

It is a democracy, and democracies are difficult to run and not perfect.

some posters here may disagree with you completely... and I disagree with you too. the U.S. is NOT a democracy. though I agree that democracies are not perfect, but they are the best.

We as a republic have the ability to change the laws on how war can be waged.

this is not true. if this were the case then there would be no need for massive protests against Vietnam and Iraq but we could just vote about how to manage war (or even if we should go to war)... since we don't, your statement is not true. and notice that even after so many protests against the Iraq war we still do not leave. is this a democracy? yet our Church leaders tell us we should obey this imposed system.

I don't like the strategy of approach. You don't like as a few others. However since it's happening this way, apparently know one has done enough to convince and change the way it can happen. Now who's fault is that?

everybody's fault, counting me. does that mean I can't take actions against the system? no. does that mean I have to directly agree with it or support it? no.

If you don't like the military complex, and their lobby efforts, or perhaps the Media hype to war then change it.

wow, thanks. I have never thought about it. I never thought that people could take actions to change things and that it was so easy...... (sarcasm).

If you don't like the way the Constitution is structured then get out there, and get elected to make changes.

there are other ways of fighting for change other than participating or becoming part of a system of coercion just as you suggest I do here.

Whiners whine, leaders lead, right or wrong, but just get it done, and stop bellyaching about it.

sure, because it is so easy to change an imposed system that there has never been a civil war or a protest against oppression in the U.S.... yea, it is as easy as just wanting, right?

You want to be a dictator then employ Hitlers methods, and then you can rule your country the way you see fit. There is no argument when the dictator slams his fist down. Everybody can run the world better didn't you know that? That includes even anarchists.

no comment on this one... because it makes no sense whatsoever.

[elguanteloko]

Never the Less, as for elquanteloky, I refuse to crawl beneath 30 feet of Whale Defication to get on this guys level and wouldn't even consider dignifing his remarks with a comment. He's trying to draw everyone in. Besides, he has at least two sockpuppets in here that I have been able to find. All I can do is feel deeply sorry for him and people like him. Especially if they have or are Pro-creating.

sure, don't bother to address any of the arguments presented. you can say with Daddy Bush "I will never apologize for the United States

[volgadon]

not sure about this one. jihadists surely want to die in war.

No, jihadists (generally speaking) are quite prepared for the possibility of dying in war, but what they want is victory.

[volgadon]

and I disagree with you too. the U.S. is NOT a democracy.

Puh-leeze. Speaking as a foreigner, you don't know how good you've got it.

[volgadon]

this is as convincing as saying that police officers are obligated to arrest people who refuse to pay taxes

They are.

or that I should bring my Jew neighbor to the murderous Nazis because Hitler told me to.

People in the USA aren't barbarously totrtured and murdered for not paying taxes. As someone whose family perished in the Holocaust I request that you not employ such analogies for something as trivial.

[J Green]

This is unfortunate.

It appears that elguanteloko cannot limit himself to commenting on the intent of the OP but rather insists on turning this into a political discussion about the merits of serving in the armed forces, including bizarre comparisons to Nazi Germany.

I request that the Mods close this thread.

Regards

[notHagoth7]

As Deputy Commander for the 300th Military Intelligence Brigade (Linguist), I've been planning a 50th Anniversary celebration of the founding of the 142nd Military Intelligence Company (now a battalion)...

I enlisted in the 142nd many moons ago (if I recall correctly, that was before fire and the wheel).

[Hestia]

It appears that elguanteloko cannot limit himself to commenting on the intent of the OP but rather insists on turning this into a political discussion about the merits of serving in the armed forces, including bizarre comparisons to Nazi Germany.

I request that the Mods close this thread.

I have banned elguanteloko from this thread so that others can continue discussing this if they wish.

[J Green]

Thanks, Hestia.

I enlisted in the 142nd many moons ago (if I recall correctly, that was before fire and the wheel).

"Into All The World" reads the battalion crest. Welcome, brother.

[J Green]

My unit was mobilized for Iraq in Jan 2003, after which we trained at Fort Carson, Colorado for several months. When we finally flew towards Kuwait and the unknown war in April of that year, General Conference was just starting. As we passed through Germany on our chartered flight, several of us downloaded texts as they were published on LDS.org. President Hinckley opened the conference by saying:

We are met again in a great world conference of the Church according to the will and instruction of the Lord.

As we do so, the world is in turmoil. There is war and contention. There is much of unrest. Members of the Church family are citizens of many nations. We find ourselves on both sides of a great debate. I intend to speak about this tomorrow morning.

The talk he gave at the end of conference, entitled "War and Peace" was incredible. It was passed silently from row to row on the plane as we flew towards the Middle East. I still remember reading these words with tears in my eyes:

Let us pray for those who are called upon to bear arms by their respective governments and plead for the protection of heaven upon them that they may return to their loved ones in safety.

To our brothers and sisters in harm