Exaltaion requirements

[Vance]

The topic here is "Is polygamy required (at least polygamy of the heart) to gain exaltation" Your post are the ones off topic.. But I have done my best to keep up with them and answer your questions..

If you look through this tread you will notice that I ignored it until YOU derailed it (see Post #275). It is I that have responded to YOUR drivel.

BTW, are you by chance OCS from beliefnet? You are exhibiting the same stellar intellect. Brighter than a black hole and smarter than a box of rocks. An intellectual depth measured in nanometers.

You are now free to continue with your delusion.

[SlackTime]

The topic here is "Is polygamy required (at least polygamy of the heart) to gain exaltation" Your post are the ones off topic.. But I have done my best to keep up with them and answer your questions.. Just because I see what you believe as a denial of the teaching of the Bible doesn't mean that I think you are stupid or that you have lost any arguments.. I am not here to wins your appoval of convert anyone.. You ask question I do my best to provide a Biblical response.. If you believe that winning an argument is more important than a presentation of the word of God then fine you win... While your cartoons are funny they have no meaning for me.. If all you are getting from answering my post is a good time please be my guest and stop posting.. IHS jim

That question was answered and put to rest in the first 3 pages of this thread. You have run this thread in every other direction and followed every odd tangent that you could find to try to keep your thread alive, long after it had been put to rest. The dead horse was totally appropriate.

- SlackTime

[James Banta]

You have a fascinating way of showing love, James.

I guess you prefer Vance? I have to admit that he was closer to how Jesus showed love to the religious lost than I do.. I don't see the value in name calling.. I believe all it does is cause people to draw up their defenses.. Like lobbing shells at a fortified bunker.. But Jesus did it anyway, I guess I can't get to upset with Vance..

Matthew 23:33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Showing love doesn't mean you let a person walk into the Lake of Fire without warming them that they are headed in that direction.. But with mormonism the religion of second chances and no hell, what the hurry? IHS jim

[Doctor Steuss]

I guess you prefer Vance? I have to admit that he was closer to how Jesus showed love to the religious lost than I do.. I don't see the value in name calling.. I believe all it does is cause people to draw up their defenses.. Like lobbing shells at a fortified bunker.. But Jesus did it anyway, I guess I can't get to upset with Vance..

Matthew 23:33

Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Showing love doesn't mean you let a person walk into the Lake of Fire without warming them that they are headed in that direction.. But with mormonism the religion of second chances and no hell, what the hurry? IHS jim

Sorry James, but between the tu quoque, red herring, straw man, and equivocation fallacies, I'm not sure what kind of a response from me you're looking for here.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Yes and I know that he shot at least two men there is some disagreement as to whether it was two or three and if anyone of them died or not.. No matter, picking up the rocks and throwing them back that those trying to stone you in NOT the definition of a Christian Martyr.. Stephen and Jesus both prayed for those that murdered them, Smith cursed his murderers.. I see a huge difference.. IHS jim

CFR that "Smith cursed is murderers".

[James Banta]

If you look through this tread you will notice that I ignored it until YOU derailed it (see Post #275). It is I that have responded to YOUR drivel.

BTW, are you by chance OCS from beliefnet? You are exhibiting the same stellar intellect. Brighter than a black hole and smarter than a box of rocks. An intellectual depth measured in nanometers.

You are now free to continue with your delusion.

I have admitted you you that I am stupid. What more do you want than that.. Your insults as to my intelligence can't hurt me if I have already admitted my lack of mental quickness.. But if you wish to beat that drum so you can point to me and laugh go ahead (1 Nephi 8:27, this isn't my scripture but it is yours)..

I have responded to other peoples posts right from the beginning.. All I wanted from this was to have my question answered.. BTW, I hope you added your vote.. I have visited Beliefnet but I found it not to be very user friendly so I am not there any longer.. Personally I AM NOT ASHAMED OF THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST FOR IT IS THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION TO EVERYONE THAT BELIEVES; TO THE JEW FIRST, AND ALSO TO THE GREEK.(Romans 1:16).. I use my real name here, Walter Martin, on CARM when I was there, and on my short visit to Beliefnet.. My email is available on WM, I will offer phone numbers on it to any one that wants to talk to me that way. And for what ever reason someone might need it my home address would be made available as well..

You come across to me as a very intelligent man. A man who is true and faithful to him family, country, and religion. I have nothing to say about you that would detract from your personal righteousness. I can't hold a candle.. I am a mere sinner that can only cry to the master of the feast for mercy..I am in NO WAY worthy of your attention nor of the Blood Jesus spilt as He died on the cross.. Thank you for your grace if not for a lack of compassion that seems to be your only perceivable weakness. I am most impressed with your pride, your self assurance that you are so much better than others. You are well on your way to earning your salvation.. Tell me do you think you can reach that goal? After all you would be a believer that you are saved by grace AFTER all you can do, right? Let me know when you have finally done all you can do..

Is there a degree of sarcasm, yes.. But I do respect your knowledge, I of course disagree with your conclusions or that the scripture support them.. I don't believe you have even tried to see things from any other angle than what you have been taught in LDS education.. I honestly see the logic of your point, I do.. But I know your testimony gives you certainty that you know I couldn't have any logic in what I say. That is offensive.. Whether you agree with me or not isn't my point here. My point is your lack of respect for any other position.. Is all you have left in your arsenal of intelligent conversation to fly off into name calling and questioning my intelligence..

Smith is a weak place to put your hope.. He taught a different God than what is revealed in the Bible.. Disagree that's ok.. I don't believe disagreeing with me make you stupid.. But This point and the other I have made here have a source in the Bible.. You see it different and have said so.. Sometime you have given reason most of the time it's been an unsupported denial.. I can't effect your testimony with reason, you can't effect mine with denial and name calling.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

These last few weeks have made me see what the appeal is in "witnessing" to Mormons. It's actually quite fun projecting from the palisades in a piety pissing contest.

I

[Chaos]

I might if I had been a person with your same taste likes and dislikes and I know you LOVE lamb but HATE pork and you try to order pork chops and and ignore the lamb chops.. But unlike my situation of being a TBM (True Blue Mormon) for years and years, I have no idea what your taste is in LUNCH.. IHS jim

I am tempted to start a new poll asking how much longer our posters want to play with you. If you bad mouth anybody's religion one more time you will be shown the door.

[James Banta]

I agree with Elder Holland

Well, to be exact, when he wrote the statement he wasn't an Apostle, he was a member of the Seventy.

Yes, I agree.

Frankly, this grows very wearisome. You are going to hang on to your interpretation, no matter what anyone else says.

Good grief, several have explained this to you. My former bishop's son was conceived in a petri dish, there is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events. The point is, we believe that God is the literal father of Jesus and Mary is His literal mother, Mary got pregnant and delivered a baby, there is nothing figurative about who his biological father is, however, we do not know and we do not say, how this conception took place.

So, what is wrong with, "in a natural way"?

So, where does he say sex was the means of conception?

This is Orson Pratt, not Brigham Young and, as has been pointed out to you, he was strongly rebuked for his publication of the Seer. Orson Pratt, may have believed what you are attributing to him, but there is still nothing in his statement that requires your interpretation.

I can say the same thing about my bishop's son.

This is a separate issue, but God changed directions several times in the Bible.

What on earth are you talking about? Clyde Williams was the editor of the book, "Teachings of the Prophet Harold B. Lee". The book is a compilations of direct quotes by Harold B. Lee. Now that you have been corrected, are you going to point out President Lee's statement the next time you hear someone claim Mormon prophets teach that God had sex with Mary, or will you just ignore it to suit your purpose?

I have no doubt that some members of the Church have speculated on what you are claiming, but the Church has no position on the matter and none of your quotes change that fact. Let me ask you, do you believe that God is the literal biological father of Jesus?

Why do you feel it necessary to sneak in childish little remarks that have no truth to them?

T-Shirt

Tell me when Elder McConkie was ordained an apostle did he pull his book (Mormon Doctrine) off the shelves or did He leave them there? Did he make huge changes in the text or are the doctrines that he believed pretty much the same as what there were when he was "only a Seventy".. Maybe it was the money.. Who knows..

You actually believe tat the natural way that fathers conceive there children is in a petri dish? When BYoung made such comments that was how he conceived his children? Excuss me for thinking that your logic is flawed..

You aren't going to tell me that Elder Pratt wasn't a prophet and seer either are you.. That he wasn't an apostle when he wrote the Seer? You backed away from Elder McConkie's book because he wasn't an apostle when he wrote it.. So tell me what is the excuse this time? That he ans President Young didn't agree.. I have been around long enough to see a lot of disagreement between members of the LDS church on points of doctrine.. I know of a man on Walter Martin that says there is one God and that God is manifest by all the Persons that are divine and will include all those that become divine in the years and eons ahead.. Not that they will become gods, no but they will be divine Persons of the ONE true God.. Strange, OH YES, agreement with mormonism, NO!!!! Still he calls himself a mormon and believes that Joseph Smith was a prophet, the BofM is true, and that today President Monson is a prophet seer and revelator..

Nope, I am going to leave quote from a ghost written book completely out of my evidence.. That is why I didn't use quotes that are not direct from the source.. You can use what ever you like I will just take it with authority I believe it deserves.. NONE!!

Do I believe that literal biological father of Jesus is God, Yes, I do.. I believe that the Holy Thing in Mary's womb was of the Holy Spirit and that Holy Spirit is God.. Since a sexual union could not be made with a Spirit it was an creative act of God. When God called light into existence that was a creative act. Sex had nothing to do with it.. Neither did sex have a single thing to do with the conception of the flesh of Jesus.

I don't recall making any childish remarks.. You will have to more clear in pointing them out.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

I am tempted to start a new poll asking how much longer our posters want to play with you. If you bad mouth anybody's religion one more time you will be shown the door.

I am lost how this state I made bad mouths anybodies religion.. I was commenting that since I know LDS doctrine I know what LDS people believe.. I know that because I was LDS for years.. Just how is that bad mouthing.. You have the power to end this topic.. So do it if it is a problem for you.. I will understand that this isn't the place to ask question or defend ones faith when it is attacked.. If that is done I will have my own opinions way you decide to take such action.. Oh if you do you have better bar me from ever Posting here again.. after all my view of the truth is not welcome here, right? IHS jim

[James Banta]

I hope for your sake that you don't any chinese food or any mexican food. I know how much you hate those types of food.

When are we going to lunch?

I was thinking Chin Waw in Sandy, But you don't like Chinese.. Since Chinese is the only true food there is nothing but false food to eat... IHS jim

[Doctor Steuss]

James,

Quite frankly, if you believed the things while you were a Mormon, that you now think Mormons believe, I

[James Banta]

James,

Quite frankly, if you believed the things while you were a Mormon, that you now think Mormons believe, I

[Doctor Steuss]

Nope just couldn't understand a God that would reject any of His children.. I was a new father and couldn't imagine breaking contact with my children for all time.. Then I read John 1:12 and found out that we must become children of God.. I wondered why we would need to become something we already were by right of birth.. THEN I started finding all the rest of this stuff.. I even realized that I had believed my teachers about the BofM but never really had a personal testimony of it.. I read it for the third time and begged God to give me that assurance that it was true so I could rescue my faith but guess what... NOTHING.. I went in for years waiting for God to give me a testimony.. I talked with everyone from a Branch President in a North Dakota Branch, to the office of Elder McConkie about my issues.. All I was ever told was stay close to the church and God would solve all my issues. I waited and them one mormon a very nice Conservative Baptist Missionary came to my door.. What he was able to explain to me made more sense that anything I had heard in mormonism.. I broke my membership in the church that day and started attending Sandy Baptist Church.. I was baptized 18 months later.. I bring up what caused me to question the LDS church and for my efforts I am called misguided, anti, stupid, and even a liar in doing so.. Look back into the page and see that the mod here has warned me about bad mouthing other churches because we talked about pork chops and lamb chops.. If I am kick out because of this complaint I can live with that.. It does seem a bit unfair form my POV.. IHS jim

Based on the above, it sounds like it wasn

[structurecop]

I waited and them one mormon a very nice Conservative Baptist Missionary came to my door..

Is this a Freudian slip or some kind of Schroedinger's Cat problem?

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I was thinking Chin Waw in Sandy, But you don't like Chinese.. Since Chinese is the only true food there is nothing but false food to eat... IHS jim

James you missed the boat on this one. FYI I just got back from Pei Wei, I had orange beef. I love Chinese food and would eat it every day. I have a feeling that you missed my point, and that is ok. It was only meant for the good Dr. I am sure he understood it. IOW it was a joke.

I do see that you are having fun with me. If you want a really good place to eat Chinese there is one on 54 south and redwood. That has old schoold chinese food. THey have the best chicken curry and sesame chicken. It is called Dynasty Express. I am quite familiar will most chinese resteraunts in Sandy. I practically grew up in Sandy.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Nope just couldn't understand a God that would reject any of His children..

So you joined a baptist church??? Okay James, you are on your own on this one.

[Doctor Steuss]

Is this a Freudian slip or some kind of Schroedinger's Cat problem?

I think it may be some form of a grandfather paradox.

Any quantum physicists on the board?

[SilverKnight]

Nope just couldn't understand a God that would reject any of His children...

Wait, you pondered this question and then joined an EV church?!?!

That's a bit like picking up smoking after you learn cigarettes cause cancer.

Simply astonishing.

[structurecop]

I think it may be some form of a grandfather paradox.

Any quantum physicists on the board?

I think you're right.

Are these different door openings? Like open once, a Mormon, open the second time, a Baptist? Or one opening and you see both at the same time? I have a sinking feeling that this has to do with irregular quarks.

[James Banta]

James you missed the boat on this one. FYI I just got back from Pei Wei, I had orange beef. I love Chinese food and would eat it every day. I have a feeling that you missed my point, and that is ok. It was only meant for the good Dr. I am sure he understood it. IOW it was a joke.

I do see that you are having fun with me. If you want a really good place to eat Chinese there is one on 54 south and redwood. That has old schoold chinese food. THey have the best chicken curry and sesame chicken. It is called Dynasty Express. I am quite familiar will most chinese resteraunts in Sandy. I practically grew up in Sandy.

I got warned about talking about food before.. The Mod thought I was slamming other religions.. I refuse to let him even think he was right.. So I'll stay with the food and not say another word.. IHS jim

[James Banta]

Is this a Freudian slip or some kind of Schroedinger's Cat problem?

Just poor typing..It should read

"I waited then one morning"

I get so used to typing the word "mormon" that it pops out when ever any word I type even starts with an "M".. Sorry IHS jim

[James Banta]

Based on the above, it sounds like it wasn

[Doctor Steuss]

I was the only Ex in the Church.. How could they understand the differences between mormonism and Christianity? God gave me a mission to the LDS as He gave Paul missions to the Greeks.. I understand mormonism (sometimes better than some Mormons, I feel better than most) and I am a student of God's word.. The Holy Spirit teaches me His word daily as I read.. I am not saying that there aren't many like me around.. There are.. One is a minister of CBHMS (Conservative Baptist Home Mission Society). We talk a lot and learn from each other.. I hope that answers your questions.. IHS jim

It does.

I was just wondering how you developed the image of a nuance-free dichotomous Mormonism. At first I thought it may have been just a polemical tool, but it appears that you sincerely believe that Mormonism is what you see it as. I can

[T-Shirt]

Do I believe that literal biological father of Jesus is God, Yes, I do..

Good, then you agree with Brigham Young, Orson Pratt, Bruce R. McConkie and me. Why are we arguing?

Best,

T-Shirt