Question for our Friends of Other faiths..

[alter idem]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

[Hoops22]

No. Much more.

[Anijen]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

Alter, I am currently a very active LDS man, however when I was fourteen I went to a different church and on Sunday in class we were taught anti LDS stuff. Funny thing is afterwards I shortly converted to the church. It was the pamphlet (1st vision, Joseph Smiths story that converted me or the Holy Ghost telling me it was true). I really don't remember much other than those classes. I guess my answer is that sometimes some churches will actually teach anti Mormon stuff other than their own theology in their own church's.

[alter idem]

Alter, I am currently a very active LDS man, however when I was fourteen I went to a different church and on Sunday in class we were taught anti LDS stuff. Funny thing is afterwards I shortly converted to the church. It was the pamphlet (1st vision, Joseph Smiths story that converted me or the Holy Ghost telling me it was true). I really don't remember much other than those classes. I guess my answer is that sometimes some churches will actually teach anti Mormon stuff other than their own theology in their own church's.

Thanks Anijen, I had heard this was the case in some churches.

I have never belonged to another faith, I assume other churches don't spend as much time in meetings as we do (except for some Masses that I think can be pretty long) and I do not know how much encouragement church leaders of these others faiths give to their members to study their own beliefs and history. I think LDS are given a great deal of encouragement to study our faith and we are provided with the tools to do this. The recent Joseph Smith papers project is a good example of this.

I have seen a couple of "Christian Bookstores" in my neighborhood, so I know there is information offered. I just have not looked at any of their books to see how in depth they are in researching and studying their own religions and if this info. is made available and members encouraged to read up and study their faith.

[alter idem]

No. Much more.

So, are you saying that you DO study your own faith with a "fine tooth" comb? You delve into your faith's history, doctrines, contradictions and controversies with MORE effort than you do the CoJCoLDS religion? I just want to make sure I understand your response.

[Hoops22]

I have never belonged to another faith, I assume other churches don't spend as much time in meetings as we do (except for some Masses that I think can be pretty long)

We spend more time at the buffet table.

and I do not know how much encouragement church leaders of these others faiths give to their members to study their own beliefs and history.

Quite a bit, actually. From my experience, anyway.

[Heartleap]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

I dont think non LDS Christians spend as much time as you think on Mormonism. Most Christians are focused on Christ and spreading the message of

Gods Kingdom. Some have a passion to led the LDS to Christ but I think it is only a very few people as most people do not know enough about you to be able

to open up to you and the LDS really do not want to hear anything that might make them question their faith. I think your church has actually

very few enemies. In the 17 years I have been out of Mormonism I have only seen one seminar on how to

witness to you. Those who really try to reach you have to do a lot of study to know what your about.

Heartleap...

[Hoops22]

So, are you saying that you DO study your own faith with a "fine tooth" comb? You delve into your faith's history, doctrines, contradictions and controversies with MORE effort than you do the CoJCoLDS religion? I just want to make sure I understand your response.

You are understanding correctly. I know much more about my faith than I do yours.

[Thunderfire]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

Hello Alter,

I am a member of the Community of Christ (RLDS) and much of your early history was also my early history. So I come here to learn how both churches "evolved" the way they did. So yes, I study my church, the scriptures, teachings, doctrines, and everything associated with it much deeper than I do the LDS.

Much that I wanted to learn about the LDS I have found "is that which is not spoken". But I still come because I enjoy the dialog and the thought process behind the LDS beliefs. I hope you have always found me respectful of your church, even in disagreement.

[alter idem]

I dont think non LDS Christians spend as much time as you think on Mormonism. Most Christians are focused on Christ and spreading the message of

Gods Kingdom. I think your church has actually

very few enemies. In the 17 years I have been out of Mormonism I have only seen one seminar on how to

witness to you. Those who really try to reach you have to do a lot of study to know what your about.

Heartleap...

I guess my impression is formed by number of posters here who have clearly prepared themselves to witness to us and I assume you are correct that they are actually a minority.

Some have a passion to led the LDS to Christ but I think it is only a very few people as most people do not know enough about you to be able

to open up to you and the LDS really do not want to hear anything that might make them question their faith.

I have to say, I suspect LDS are not alone in this. I suspect that the majority in other religions also don't want to hear things that make them question their faith. However, I'd say, all of us on this board are not part of that group. Regardless of what religion (or no religion) we profess, we're sure to hear things that challenge our respective beliefs and take us out of our comfort zone.

[alter idem]

Hello Alter,

I am a member of the Community of Christ (RLDS) and much of your early history was also my early history. So I come here to learn how both churches "evolved" the way they did. So yes, I study my church, the scriptures, teachings, doctrines, and everything associated with it much deeper than I do the LDS.

Much that I wanted to learn about the LDS I have found "is that which is not spoken". But I still come because I enjoy the dialog and the thought process behind the LDS beliefs. I hope you have always found me respectful of your church, even in disagreement.

Hi Thunderfire, I guess that makes us sort of like cousins, once or twice removed.

I've never found your posts to be disrespectful--I hope you haven't been harangued by any of the posters here. This can be a rough place for those who are not CofJCoLDS. We've got a couple here who "shoot first and ask questions later". Ya got to love 'em though....they do make this place lively.

I think this board can be a great place for CofC members to find out about their roots also. And I am not surprised that you study your church, scriptures etc. since we share a belief in the Book of Mormon and it's emphasis on pondering and studying gospel teachings that are found in it--as well as the importance placed on the Bible by the Prophet Joseph Smith.

[blueadept]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

It would be hypocritical if I didn't look at the warts of my own faith while studying my TBM wife's faith.

I would say I study the LDS faith about 40% of my time.

The bottom-line is that I feel closer to Christ when I study the Catholic faith than I do when I study Mormonism. To each their own though

Question - What makes you believe that our sources to material are limited??

[saemo]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

Hi alter idem, for many years after I left Mormonism, I didn't read a thing about Mormonism. Nothing. I did spend a lot of time studying belief systems. Especially Eastern philosophies found in the Yoga Sutras, Baghad Vita and other writings.

When my sister, who was also an exmormon, returned to Mormonism I was very perplexed. I started studying Mormonism then, trying to figure out why she went back. I also developed an interest in the history of Christianity, so I started reading a lot of Catholic material.

Long story short, I am now Catholic. I maintain an interest in learning and understanding differing belief systems. I have retained an interest in Mormonism as I have many family members who are LDS. Mainly, it fascinates me to no end that they remain LDS. I still try to figure out why. I figure if I read enough, I might eventually get it.

I study far more Catholicism than I do Mormonism. Mormonism makes me want to tear the paint off the walls when I study it. My faith brings me peace, and love for God.

As for availability, parishes have Bible study and bookclubs, as well as many other opportunities to study, as a community. We are encouraged to study the Bible, pray, and attend Mass often. Some go to daily Mass. I would, but my schedule does not allow for it. Mass would need to start at 7am and I have not found any earlier than 8am. I have been thinking of finding a way to be with Our Lord at Eucharist Adoration. Time, time, time. I wish there were more of it!

In the meantime, I spend a lot of time reading the Bible. Catholic discussions online (such as first things and others), and I frequent the Vatican website to read the latest sermons and other documents coming from the Holy See.

Sometimes, I just quietly contemplate and pray. And that is my study.

[ERayR]

Hi alter idem, for many years after I left Mormonism, I didn't read a thing about Mormonism. Nothing. I did spend a lot of time studying belief systems. Especially Eastern philosophies found in the Yoga Sutras, Baghad Vita and other writings.

When my sister, who was also an exmormon, returned to Mormonism I was very perplexed. I started studying Mormonism then, trying to figure out why she went back. I also developed an interest in the history of Christianity, so I started reading a lot of Catholic material.

Long story short, I am now Catholic. I maintain an interest in learning and understanding differing belief systems. I have retained an interest in Mormonism as I have many family members who are LDS. Mainly, it fascinates me to no end that they remain LDS. I still try to figure out why. I figure if I read enough, I might eventually get it.

I study far more Catholicism than I do Mormonism. Mormonism makes me want to tear the paint off the walls when I study it. My faith brings me peace, and love for God.

As for availability, parishes have Bible study and bookclubs, as well as many other opportunities to study, as a community. We are encouraged to study the Bible, pray, and attend Mass often. Some go to daily Mass. I would, but my schedule does not allow for it. Mass would need to start at 7am and I have not found any earlier than 8am. I have been thinking of finding a way to be with Our Lord at Eucharist Adoration. Time, time, time. I wish there were more of it!

In the meantime, I spend a lot of time reading the Bible. Catholic discussions online (such as first things and others), and I frequent the Vatican website to read the latest sermons and other documents coming from the Holy See.

Sometimes, I just quietly contemplate and pray. And that is my study.

I really truly am glad you have found peace and fulfillment in your present walk with God. As for your family who are members who are LDS just be happy that they find peace and fulfillment in their walk with God. To be honest a few of them may very feel like tearing the paint off the walls when they study Catholicism. With me I find some of Catholicism understandable and reasonable, from a certain point of view, but some of it especially in the historic area makes me want to "tear the paint off the walls".

[saemo]

I really truly am glad you have found peace and fulfillment in your present walk with God. As for your family who are members who are LDS just be happy that they find peace and fulfillment in their walk with God. To be honest a few of them may very feel like tearing the paint off the walls when they study Catholicism. With me I find some of Catholicism understandable and reasonable, from a certain point of view, but some of it especially in the historic area makes me want to "tear the paint off the walls".

Thank you. I was angry for a long time. But, as I grow in my relatively new faith, I have found that old anger has left me. Tearing paint off the walls is mild to the feelings I once had, regarding Mormonism.

I love my family, very much. Long ago I came to that place, where even though I don't understand my sister's decision, I am happy that she is happy.

[soren]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

I advocate studying Catholicism with a fine tooth comb, because that is what makes our theology blossom. My own education (at least when I was an undergrad) emphasized the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas, who is the most rigorous theologian I know of (in any faith) in terms of examining the assumptions underlying his own position and articulating the case against himself. His Summa Theologica is organized in groups of articles that each explore some question about the faith. After posing each question Aquinas lists a series of objections against the Catholic position (usually around five but I have found articles with as many as eighteen). Some of the objections are his own, others borrowed from historical sources. After listing them, he articulates his own position constructives, and then responds to each objection in turn. It often falls out that the objections fail to take into account some nuance of the more subtle Catholic belief given in Aquinas's constructive.

I should add that Aquinas does not set up strawman objections. In fact, he sometimes improves upon the arguments of his opponents. If you were to take all the objections from the Summa and list them in isolation without Aquinas's replies, you would have in your hands the single best and most adroit anti-Catholic text ever created. By an embarrassingly significant margin. I can say without reservation that I have never encountered a Mormon who made a better case against Catholicism than Aquinas. More specifically, the arguments against the Trinity that we hear from Mormons today would not rank high among the more substantive and persuasive objections that Aquinas presents and replies to.

Aquinas's rigor is part of why he is a prince of theologians, but I should add that he is the outstanding example of an entire tradition of Catholic thought, from which Aquinas's own methods arise. By investigating the details, including the problematic points and tough objections, we grow in our understanding and a attain a clearer and therefore more spiritually illuminating grasp of the truth of Christ. That is a first principle of Catholic theology. We've understood it for centuries, and have lived accordingly.

[ERMD]

My business partner attends a non-denominational Evangelical church. We know we have our theological differences and leave it at that. I know that both he and his wife attend weekly Bible study classes/devotionals at the homes of other members of their church. He hasn't told me if they delve into (anti) LDS writings, but my impression is that they spend almost all of their time studying the Bible.

[alter idem]

Question - What makes you believe that our sources to material are limited??

I think in general, posters who come here to "witness" to LDS may use limited sources. Their info. usually includes ellipses where they've left things out or they take the material out of context. I believe they limit their sources to those who are critical of the LDS faith.

I would assume that Posters like you, who have a family member who is LDS most likely use varied sources.

[sleepyhead]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

Hello alter idem,

I actually don't spend much time at all studying lds history or teachings. I enjoy debating and since I at one time was lds I spend time in mormon forums. When I 1st became a student of the Edgar Cayce material I spent a great deal of time studying it. I don't actually study it that much anymore.

[alter idem]

Hi alter idem, for many years after I left Mormonism, I didn't read a thing about Mormonism. Nothing. I did spend a lot of time studying belief systems. Especially Eastern philosophies found in the Yoga Sutras, Baghad Vita and other writings.

When my sister, who was also an exmormon, returned to Mormonism I was very perplexed. I started studying Mormonism then, trying to figure out why she went back. I also developed an interest in the history of Christianity, so I started reading a lot of Catholic material.

I study far more Catholicism than I do Mormonism. Mormonism makes me want to tear the paint off the walls when I study it. My faith brings me peace, and love for God.

As for availability, parishes have Bible study and bookclubs, as well as many other opportunities to study, as a community. We are encouraged to study the Bible, pray, and attend Mass often. Some go to daily Mass. I would, but my schedule does not allow for it. Mass would need to start at 7am and I have not found any earlier than 8am. I have been thinking of finding a way to be with Our Lord at Eucharist Adoration. Time, time, time. I wish there were more of it!

In the meantime, I spend a lot of time reading the Bible. Catholic discussions online (such as first things and others), and I frequent the Vatican website to read the latest sermons and other documents coming from the Holy See.

Sometimes, I just quietly contemplate and pray. And that is my study.

Thanks Saemo for explaining your background.

Long story short, I am now Catholic. I maintain an interest in learning and understanding differing belief systems. I have retained an interest in Mormonism as I have many family members who are LDS. Mainly, it fascinates me to no end that they remain LDS. I still try to figure out why. I figure if I read enough, I might eventually get it.

I hope you won't take offense, but I bet your LDS family members wonder the same thing about you. I bet they wonder how you came to become a Catholic.

When I think of religions that attract converts, Catholicism is not at the top of the list. Perhaps because it's had such a long and varied history (you guys have skeletons in your closet too) and they don't seem like a religion that proselytizes much to attract new members.

However, I will admit that without the belief in an apostasy and restoration, the Catholic Church seems to be the one with the best claim at calling itself the true church on earth, so I can understand why you would have determined to join it.

[alter idem]

I advocate studying Catholicism with a fine tooth comb, because that is what makes our theology blossom. My own education (at least when I was an undergrad) emphasized the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas, who is the most rigorous theologian I know of (in any faith) in terms of examining the assumptions underlying his own position and articulating the case against himself. His Summa Theologica is organized in groups of articles that each explore some question about the faith. After posing each question Aquinas lists a series of objections against the Catholic position (usually around five but I have found articles with as many as eighteen). Some of the objections are his own, others borrowed from historical sources. After listing them, he articulates his own position constructives, and then responds to each objection in turn. It often falls out that the objections fail to take into account some nuance of the more subtle Catholic belief given in Aquinas's constructive.

I should add that Aquinas does not set up strawman objections. In fact, he sometimes improves upon the arguments of his opponents. If you were to take all the objections from the Summa and list them in isolation without Aquinas's replies, you would have in your hands the single best and most adroit anti-Catholic text ever created. By an embarrassingly significant margin. I can say without reservation that I have never encountered a Mormon who made a better case against Catholicism than Aquinas. More specifically, the arguments against the Trinity that we hear from Mormons today would not rank high among the more substantive and persuasive objections that Aquinas presents and replies to.

Aquinas's rigor is part of why he is a prince of theologians, but I should add that he is the outstanding example of an entire tradition of Catholic thought, from which Aquinas's own methods arise. By investigating the details, including the problematic points and tough objections, we grow in our understanding and a attain a clearer and therefore more spiritually illuminating grasp of the truth of Christ. That is a first principle of Catholic theology. We've understood it for centuries, and have lived accordingly.

Thanks Soren, you've peaked my interest with this very thorough review of Aquinas' Summa Theologica and I think I'm going to have to read it. I have read references to it in other writings but have never taken the time to look at the actual document itself.

[alter idem]

Hello alter idem,

I actually don't spend much time at all studying lds history or teachings. I enjoy debating and since I at one time was lds I spend time in mormon forums. When I 1st became a student of the Edgar Cayce material I spent a great deal of time studying it. I don't actually study it that much anymore.

Thanks for your response, Sleepyhead. I assume that since you were once LDS, you probably have enough knowledge of the church and it's beliefs that you can draw on that for discussion.

I'm not real familiar with the "Edgar Cayce material"--I'll have to google it.

FYI, I love your avatar. I've wondered if you picked it so that even if your comments are negative, posters will still have a warm feeling toward you because we subconsciously picture you as a gentle golden retriever with big brown eyes. If so, very smart--it works.

[alter idem]

My business partner attends a non-denominational Evangelical church. We know we have our theological differences and leave it at that. I know that both he and his wife attend weekly Bible study classes/devotionals at the homes of other members of their church. He hasn't told me if they delve into (anti) LDS writings, but my impression is that they spend almost all of their time studying the Bible.

I suspect they are not discussing Anti things at your partner's Bible class. I doubt they'd be able to get along with you if they were--the Anti discussions would probably reveal themselves in conversation.

A couple of years ago, a friend of my daughter's left their Martial Arts class after his church started to push Anti stuff--and he felt he could no longer associate with LDS people. He tried to make headway with the LDS members, but when he couldn't, he did not feel that he could remain. I think it was too bad that he did not feel he could still be friends with them.

[3DOP]

We have a number of posters on this board who belong to other faiths. It seems that a few of these posters must spend a great deal of time and effort studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, our history, teachings, doctrines etc.(though their sources are pretty limited) and a thought occurred to me. Do these people spend as much time studying their own religion and going over it with a "fine tooth" comb as they do ours?

I now spend no time studying your faith. I have in my life read perhaps ten books by LDS authors and I think only one anti-LDS book. Maybe once or twice a year, I call a friend to confirm facts about your beliefs and practices. Much of the studies I do of my own faith (Catholic) are connected with criticism of it from the Mormons here. I am currently reading about the Spanish Inquisition, (which is not strictly speaking about my faith). I am motivated by multiplied references about the institution over the years here, most recently as one of the two reasons for why, as a people, Philipinos engage in "passing the buck and blaming others".

3DOP

[3DOP]

Wow Soren...

That was a great pitch. I had never thought of the Summa that way before, as being in part, a great compendium of anti-Catholic thought, but you are certainly correct. Ignoramus that I am, I'll be reading the objections and agreeing with them if I am not careful! Of course I know that the Angelic Doctor will always find a legitimate way out of the problem presented and then some.

3DOP