Joseph Antley Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Today in Sunday School, the question was why the brother of Jared would be shocked to see the finger of the Lord. I gave my thoughts, and someone else felt the need to correct me by giving what most of the class thought the unequivocal correct answer was: that the brother of Jared didn't realize the Lord had a finger; the knowledge that God had a body wasn't known to him.I thought that was just silly, but felt no need distracting the class with my arguments.So did the brother of Jared understand that the Lord had a corporeal spiritual body, or did Hellenistic influence begin much earlier than I thought?
The Nehor Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 The reality is we don't know. I taught that lesson today and it seemed clear from the scriptures that he didn't know or the Lord wouldn't have explained it. We also went off a little and discussed the Zohar from Noah's Ark so from that it seemed likely he had scripture but how much we don't know.
BCSpace Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 I think the verses are pretty clear that Mahonri didn't know what he would see. He simply used the words most appropriate at the time when he asked the Lord to touch the stones with his finger, not knowing if he would see a finger, a noodly appendage, something else entirely, or nothing at all.
Olavarria Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 Ether 3: 4, 6, 8-9, 19 4 And I know, O Lord, that thou hast all power, and can do whatsoever thou wilt for the benefit of man; therefore touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger, and prepare them that they may shine forth in darkness; and they shall shine forth unto us in the vessels which we have prepared, that we may have clight while we shall cross the sea. â?¢ â?¢ â?¢ 6 And it came to pass that when the brother of Jared had said these words, behold, the Lord stretched forth his hand and touched the stones one by one with his finger. And the veil was taken from off the eyes of the brother of Jared, and he saw the finger of the Lord; and it was as the finger of a man, like unto flesh and blood; and the brother of Jared fell down before the Lord, for he was struck with efear. â?¢ â?¢ â?¢ 8 And he saith unto the Lord: I saw the finger of the Lord, and I feared lest he should smite me; for I knew not that the Lord had flesh and blood. 9 And the Lord said unto him: Because of thy faith thou hast seen that I shall take upon me aflesh and blood; and never has man come before me with bsuch exceeding faith as thou hast; for were it not so ye could not have seen my finger. Sawest thou more than this? â?¢ â?¢ â?¢ 19 And because of the aknowledge of this man he could not be kept from beholding within the bveil; and he saw the finger of Jesus, which, when he saw, he fell with fear; for he knew that it was the finger of the Lord; and he had cfaith no longer, for he knew, nothing ddoubting.It seems like:1)He did know the Lord had a finger.2)He was mistaken in thinking that The Lord had a finger of "flesh and blood". That hadn't happened yet.
The Mean Farmer Posted December 14, 2008 Posted December 14, 2008 It seems like:1)He did know the Lord had a finger.2)He was mistaken in thinking that The Lord had a finger of "flesh and blood". That hadn't happened yet.Since we simply don't know I am going with the following.In the phrase "touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger", I think he probably used it as an idiom or a personification of exactly what he would have asked the Lord to do. In the same respect as I would explain driving in an ice storm, seeing a kid sledding in the road, slamming on my brakes locking them up and suddenly "Like the hand of God" comes down and stops the vehicle short of tragedy.I also think the term FEAR, after he sees the finger of the Lord, is more a token of awe and reverence where one would drop to his knees or face in the presence of actual deity then being scared in horror of a God who had brought you so far already.Thats my story and I am sticking to it.Until I read the story again and decide it is something different.
Olavarria Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Since we simply don't know I am going with the following.In the phrase "touch these stones, O Lord, with thy finger", I think he probably used it as an idiom or a personification of exactly what he would have asked the Lord to do. In the same respect as I would explain driving in an ice storm, seeing a kid sledding in the road, slamming on my brakes locking them up and suddenly "Like the hand of God" comes down and stops the vehicle short of tragedy.I also think the term FEAR, after he sees the finger of the Lord, is more a token of awe and reverence where one would drop to his knees or face in the presence of actual deity then being scared in horror of a God who had brought you so far already.Thats my story and I am sticking to it.Until I read the story again and decide it is something different.Its possible that you are right.Im just going with a very literalistic reading of the text. Being that ancient mesopotamians thought of their gods in anthropomorphic terms, I dont see why we should assume that Mahonri was any different.
jadams_4242 Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Today in Sunday School, the question was why the brother of Jared would be shocked to see the finger of the Lord. I gave my thoughts, and someone else felt the need to correct me by giving what most of the class thought the unequivocal correct answer was: that the brother of Jared didn't realize the Lord had a finger; the knowledge that God had a body wasn't known to him.I thought that was just silly, but felt no need distracting the class with my arguments.So did the brother of Jared understand that the Lord had a corporeal spiritual body, or did Hellenistic influence begin much earlier than I thought?Whats the name of the brother of Jared?
Olavarria Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 Whats the name of the brother of Jared? Mahonri Moriancumer
Joseph Antley Posted December 15, 2008 Author Posted December 15, 2008 Why wouldn't Mahonri have known that the Lord had a finger? Why do we want to think that he didn't know that, seeing as he asked the Lord to touch the stones with his finger?Also, unrelated but related question, why is the brother of Jared the only person in the Book of Mormon with a surname?
Zakuska Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 More importantly... why are the Mountian ranges around Dofar (aka Bountiful) named Morian and Qumar?13 And now I proceed with my record; for behold, it came to pass that the Lord did bring Jared and his brethren forth even to that great sea which divideth the lands. And as they came to the sea they pitched their tents; and they called the name of the place Moriancumer; and they dwelt in tents, and dwelt in tents upon the seashore for the space of four years. http://www.nephiproject.com/map_room.htm
jana at jade house Posted December 15, 2008 Posted December 15, 2008 I think the story is the high point of familial comedy in the BOM. Whether Bro. of Jared thought God had digits or not , a disembodied digit suddenly appearing would make anyone sorta fall about, doncha think? In surprise if nothing else. And then God asks a very parental question: Why did you go and do that?! Knowing full well what was going on in Bro of Jared's head. Bro. of Jared sorta mumbles, well you started it, you startled me.... I can see it in my mind's eye and it makes me smile every time. Bro. of Jared was caught off guard. I think it matters not one whit what he thought about whether God had flesh and blood. Humans often think of their god forms in a generally human shape. Even if their gods have elephant heads or many arms.
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