Diversity In The Church

[semlogo]

That is true, however there are some political movements that are in direct opposition to the teachings of the Church and run counter to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There some parties and factions that would overthrow our freedom and our liberty of these I am of the opinion that no member of the Church can be considered in good standing and affiliate with these groups. As for guns I do not and never have owned one, however I do not want a Totalitarian state coming in confiscating them from law abiding citizens who have the right to protect their persons and property as is stated in the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution, but that is a discussion for another time and another board (politics not being allowed here.)

ALL political movements teach things opposite of the teachings of the church - but one doesn't need to believe everything about a party to be affiliated with it.Anyway...

Nope. And, you know it.

No, I don't know it. What else was said in the other thread that you disagreed with?

[The Nehor]

Our heavenly Father is more liberal in His views, and boundless in His mercies and blessings, than we are ready to believe or receive; and at the same time more terrible to the workers of iniquity, more awful in the executions of His punishments, and more ready to detect in every false way, than we are apt to suppose Him to be

Uh-oh!!!!!!!!! Joseph Smith said God is a LIBERAL!!!!!!!!

Seriously, unless the hard-core politically aligned have revelation I don't I think they spend a lot of time proudly defending land partially held by Satan. By all means, support political causes and parties but don't do it with an air of sanctity.

[talisyn]

That is true, however there are some political movements that are in direct opposition to the teachings of the Church and run counter to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. There some parties and factions that would overthrow our freedom and our liberty of these I am of the opinion that no member of the Church can be considered in good standing and affiliate with these groups. As for guns I do not and never have owned one, however I do not want a Totalitarian state coming in confiscating them from law abiding citizens who have the right to protect their persons and property as is stated in the 2nd amendment of the U.S. Constitution, but that is a discussion for another time and another board (politics not being allowed here.)

I'm dying to ask what movements you consider direct opposition to the church but refuse to turn this into a political discussion, those never seem to end well. I think we can all agree the NOW group, the shining path group, and the khmer rouge are all political groups that are not in line with gospel principles and should probably be avoided. That's what makes the diversity of thought found in the Church so great! We are not required to be the same, we in fact are encouraged to be thoughtful, informed citizens of whatever country we happen to find ourselves in. A Church member in Denmark will believe in the same principles of the gospel as a Church member in North Carolina who will believe the same principles of the gospel as a Church member in Romania, Nairobi, so on and so forth. All are part of the same restoration of the fullness of the gospel despite the differences in temporal governments.

[semlogo]

Uh-oh!!!!!!!!! Joseph Smith said God is a LIBERAL!!!!!!!!

Seriously, unless the hard-core politically aligned have revelation I don't I think they spend a lot of time proudly defending land partially held by Satan. By all means, support political causes and parties but don't do it with an air of sanctity.

â??Woe to ye rich men, who refuse to give to the poor, and then come and ask me for bread. Away with all your meanness, and be liberal.â? - J. Smith

[MormonMason]

...

No, I don't know it. What else was said in the other thread that you disagreed with?

Go back and read it. In addition, the remark also is based on experiences I have had.

And, yes, you do know it. I have never said anywhere what you insinuate.

[semlogo]

Go back and read it. In addition, the remark also is based on experiences I have had.

And, yes, you do know it. I have never said anywhere what you insinuate.

Why can't you just tell me? How hard is that?

[Lightbearer]

I'm dying to ask what movements you consider direct opposition to the church but refuse to turn this into a political discussion, those never seem to end well. I think we can all agree the NOW group, the shining path group, and the khmer rouge are all political groups that are not in line with gospel principles and should probably be avoided. That's what makes the diversity of thought found in the Church so great! We are not required to be the same, we in fact are encouraged to be thoughtful, informed citizens of whatever country we happen to find ourselves in. A Church member in Denmark will believe in the same principles of the gospel as a Church member in North Carolina who will believe the same principles of the gospel as a Church member in Romania, Nairobi, so on and so forth. All are part of the same restoration of the fullness of the gospel despite the differences in temporal governments.

Good government is good government whether it is in Denmark, North Carolina, Romania, Nairobi etc... Bad government is also bad no matter what country or state is involved. That is why the Church does not endorse political parties only upholds correct moral principles and hopefully we will choose to govern ourselves the way God would have us be governed. The Book of Mormon gives us a good idea of good government as does the D&C:

(D&C 134:1-5) "WE believe that governments were instituted of God for the benefit of man; and that he holds men accountable for their acts in relation to them, both in making laws and administering them, for the good and safety of society. We believe that no government can exist in peace, except such laws are framed and held inviolate as will secure to each individual the free exercise of conscience, the right and control of property, and the protection of life. We believe that all governments necessarily require civil officers and magistrates to enforce the laws of the same; and that such as will administer the law in equity and justice should be sought for and upheld by the voice of the people if a republic, or the will of the sovereign. We believe that religion is instituted of God; and that men are amenable to him, and to him only, for the exercise of it, unless their religious opinions prompt them to infringe upon the rights and liberties of others; but we do not believe that human law has a right to interfere in prescribing rules of worship to bind the consciences of men, nor dictate forms for public or private devotion; that the civil magistrate should restrain crime, but never control conscience; should punish guilt, but never suppress the freedom of the soul. We believe that all men are bound to sustain and uphold the respective governments in which they reside, while protected in their inherent and inalienable rights by the laws of such governments; and that sedition and rebellion are unbecoming every citizen thus protected, and should be punished accordingly; and that all governments have a right to enact such laws as in their own judgments are best calculated to secure the public interest; at the same time, however, holding sacred the freedom of conscience."

Also the following:

(Mosiah 29:26-27) "Now it is not common that the voice of the people desireth anything contrary to that which is right; but it is common for the lesser part of the people to desire that which is not right; therefore this shall ye observe and make it your lawâ??to do your business by the voice of the people. And if the time comes that the voice of the people doth choose iniquity, then is the time that the judgments of God will come upon you; yea, then is the time he will visit you with great destruction even as he has hitherto visited this land."

This is the price of freedom so it would behoove us to choose rightly in our political choices as well as our spiritual ones.

[MormonMason]

Why can't you just tell me? How hard is that?

I want to test your skills. How hard can it be simply to look? See what I mean about being unteachable?

[The Nehor]

I would put D&C 134 in as second-class canon. It's a declaration by the Twelve that came out with the now defunct article on Marriage. I don't think Joseph ever signed off on it. I think it's mostly good but I don't see it as the will of God revealed.

[semlogo]

I want to test your skills. How hard can it be simply to look? See what I mean about being unteachable?

It's a huge thread. How am I supposed to guess which post was proof of corruption and debauchery within the church. Could I have a hint?

[MormonMason]

It's a huge thread. How am I supposed to guess which post was proof of corruption and debauchery within the church. Could I have a hint?

I have said nothing about 'proof' here or there.

If you wish to learn under me, I require huge volumes of research from time to time. I also require papers. Just the fact that you are complaining about searching through a thread convinces me further of your unsuitability to be under my tutilage. Sorry.

BTW, Google is forbidden.

[semlogo]

I have said nothing about 'proof' here or there.

If you wish to learn under me, I require huge volumes of research from time to time. I also require papers. Just the fact that you are complaining about searching through a thread convinces me further of your unsuitability to be under my tutilage. Sorry.

BTW, Google is forbidden.

But how do I know what you consider "debauchery"? Without that vital information, it's just guesswork, not research. I have no idea what your moral framework is. Apparently you're okay with murdering innocent people in the name of God. You like guns, are against homosexuality, and like capitalism, and are afraid the government is going to round us all up and put us in a gulag. That's not much to go on.

[LeSellers]

â??Woe to ye rich men, who refuse to give to the poor, and then come and ask me for bread. Away with all your meanness, and be liberal.â? - J. Smith

What do you imagine this means?

Lehi

[talisyn]

It's a huge thread. How am I supposed to guess which post was proof of corruption and debauchery within the church. Could I have a hint?

Debauchery in the Church?!? I must have missed that Gospel Doctrine class....Obviously I need to go to Sunday School more.

[The Nehor]

Debauchery in the Church?!? I must have missed that Gospel Doctrine class....Obviously I need to go to Sunday School more.

That would be one ward in a nearby stake known as the 'fornicating fourth ward'. The Stake President is believed to have coined the phrase.

[semlogo]

What do you imagine this means?

Lehi

I know he wasn't referring to political beliefs. He's talking about giving freely. I meant it tongue in cheek.

[urroner]

I know he wasn't referring to political beliefs. He's talking about giving freely. I meant it tongue in cheek.

You forgot one of these smiley faces.

[semlogo]

That would be one ward in a nearby stake known as the 'fornicating fourth ward'. The Stake President is believed to have coined the phrase.

That's a pretty good ward. As for me, when I'm in the mood for some good old fashioned debauchery, I go to the Sacrifice-A-Goat-To-Zuul Second Ward or the Frolic-Naked-In-The-Forest First Ward. Admittedly, the latter has a lot in common with the Fourth Ward.

[thesometimesaint]

Mormon culture is not Utah culture. It is not American culture. It is not even world culture. It is every true and good principle of righteous living that was, is, and will be practiced in Heaven.

[semlogo]

You forgot one of these smiley faces.

I thought the saucy way my font prances across the page with nary a serif to hide its nakidity would have been obvious enough.

[semlogo]

Mormon culture is not Utah culture. It is not American culture. It is not even world culture. It is every true and good principle of righteous living that was, is, and will be practiced in Heaven.

Let's hope so. I don't want to listen to big band, ska and acapella vocal groups in heaven. I'd go nuts.

[talisyn]

Mormon culture is not Utah culture. It is not American culture. It is not even world culture. It is every true and good principle of righteous living that was, is, and will be practiced in Heaven.

Now this brings up a different question, what is mormon culture? Cause I've lived in Idaho, Cali, and Utah and I have to say as much as I love the members of the Church there are some definite differences between the Saints in those wards...but the one thing that unites us all is the great food put out by the Relief Society

[The Nehor]

Now this brings up a different question, what is mormon culture? Cause I've lived in Idaho, Cali, and Utah and I have to say as much as I love the members of the Church there are some definite differences between the Saints in those wards...but the one thing that unites us all is the great food put out by the Relief Society

Funeral Potatos!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have it on good authority that they will be at the buffet while waiting for Final Judgment.

[talisyn]

Funeral Potatos!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have it on good authority that they will be at the buffet while waiting for Final Judgment.

Funeral potatoes are truly what makes a funeral worth going to. The older sisters of the ward sure know how to cook. I feel sorry for the generation after this upoming little generation, cause their grandparents won't know how to cook without a microwave.

[Lightbearer]

I would put D&C 134 in as second-class canon. It's a declaration by the Twelve that came out with the now defunct article on Marriage. I don't think Joseph ever signed off on it. I think it's mostly good but I don't see it as the will of God revealed.

So you are suggesting it should be removed? Whether or not Joseph "signed off" on it is not really the point, it is in the standard works therefore it is true and binding on the Church. Joseph was not the last Prophet of the Church so I really do not see how you can call it "second-class canon" when the canon is still open to this very day.