Mosiah 24:3-6

[Bernard Gui]

Be patient with this old guy...maybe this has been pointed out before.

Even so, what do you think?

I was reading Mosiah 24 and came across this passage:

3 And now the name of the king of the Lamanites was Laman, being called

after the name of his father; and therefore he was called king Laman.

And he was king over a numerous people.

4 And he appointed teachers of the brethren of Amulon in every land

which was possessed by his people; and thus the language of Nephi began

to be taught among all the people of the Lamanites.

5 And they were a people friendly one with another; nevertheless they

knew not God; neither did the brethren of Amulon teach them anything

concerning the Lord their God, neither the law of Moses; nor did they teach

them the words of Abinadi;

6 But they taught them that they should keep their record, and that they might

write one to another.

So, Laman was king over a numerous people and he appointed the rascal Amulon

and his cohorts to teach all his people the language of the Nephites. But up until

this passage, there seems to be no problem of communication between

Lamanites and Nephites...Alma and the lecherous priests of Noah were able

to plead their causes, and Amulon spoke with the Lamanite king, Laman.

So, who was it that had to learn the language of the Nephites?

Bernard

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

Be patient with this old guy...maybe this has been pointed out before.

Even so, what do you think?

I was reading Mosiah 24 and came across this passage:

So, Laman was king over a numerous people and he appointed the rascal Amulon

and his cohorts to teach all his people the language of the Nephites. But up until

this passage, there seems to be no problem of communication between

Lamanites and Nephites...Alma and the lecherous priests of Noah were able

to plead their causes, and Amulon spoke with the Lamanite king, Laman.

So, who was it that had to learn the language of the Nephites?

Bernard

Bullseye!

[betalogistic]

I was reading Mosiah 24 and came across this passage:

So, Laman was king over a numerous people and he appointed the rascal Amulon

and his cohorts to teach all his people the language of the Nephites. But up until

this passage, there seems to be no problem of communication between

Lamanites and Nephites...Alma and the lecherous priests of Noah were able

to plead their causes, and Amulon spoke with the Lamanite king, Laman.

So, who was it that had to learn the language of the Nephites?

I believe the reference means that they taught the Lamanites to write the language of the Nephites. They could speak, but they couldn't write. The passage shows the importance of a written record. It is very had to do business without being able to write. It is very hard to communicate clearly among groups that are separated without being able to write. There are other obvious advantages.

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

I believe the reference means that they taught the Lamanites to write the language of the Nephites. They could speak, but they couldn't write. The passage shows the importance of a written record. It is very had to do business without being able to write. It is very hard to communicate clearly among groups that are separated without being able to write. There are other obvious advantages.

While it is a possibility, it isn't stated that way. You'd have to say that the passage isn't entirely accurate or that the word "language" refers only to written language.

[Bernard Gui]

I believe the reference means that they taught the Lamanites to write the language of the Nephites. They could speak, but they couldn't write. The passage shows the importance of a written record. It is very had to do business without being able to write. It is very hard to communicate clearly among groups that are separated without being able to write. There are other obvious advantages.

Language and writing are separated by a verse and appear to me to be

distinct activities. I read it that they taught them the language of the Nephites

and how to write to each other.

Bernard

[betalogistic]

While it is a possibility, it isn't stated that way. You'd have to say that the passage isn't entirely accurate or that the word "language" refers only to written language.

There are instances in the BOM where it is very clear by the context that "language" is referring to written language, but the writer did not make the distinction and say "written language." Your requirement that the author (i.e., Mormon) explicitly differentiate between "written language" and "spoken language" seems to be a stretch.

1 Ne. 1:2 - Nephi "makes a record in the language of his father"

Enos 1:1 - Enos was taught by his father in "his language"

Mosiah 1:4 - With the help of the brass plates, Lehi was able to teach his people "for he having been taught in the language of the Egyptians"

All of the above citations are specifically in the context of being able to read the brass plates and/or being able to keep a written record. We know that the Nephites wrote in a different language than their spoken language, as described by Moroni in Mormon 9:32-33. Hence, this explains the necessity of learning the written language.

In other places, it is clear that "language" refers to both "written language" and "spoken language".

Omni 1:17-18 - The Mulekites "language had become corrupted" and Mosiah and his people could not understand them. They "brought no records" with them.

In the citation of Mosiah 24:3-6, we read that the priests of Noah taught the language of the Nephites to the Lamanites. We do not know if the "spoken language" of the Lamanites had become corrupted, or not. If so, then communication between the two groups could have happened by "sign language" or some "simplified language" such as we have seen in the history of this country. However, literacy and being able to keep a record seems to be very important from the context. In verse 6, we read about the records. Then in verse 7, in the role of historian, Mormon points out the importance of learning the language of the Nephites. He states that they (the Lamanites) "began to increase in riches," they began "to trade one with another," and they "began to be a cunning and a wise people." These are all effects from literacy and learning the "written language", not "spoken language." We do not know whether this "written language" was Hebrew or reformed Egyptian. I tend to believe that it was Hebrew.

I suppose you could disagree with my analysis and say that the Nephite "spoken language" was superior to the Lamanite "spoken language" and this superiority allowed them to engage in commerce and to become rich. I would rather believe that education and literacy was the cause of their improved economic condition.

-- Beta

[betalogistic]

Language and writing are separated by a verse and appear to me to be

distinct activities. I read it that they taught them the language of the Nephites

and how to write to each other.

Bernard

This is definitely a possibility. We read in Omni 1:17 that the Mulekites language had become corrupted and this verse chronologically precedes the verse of Mosiah 24:3-6. The situation of the Mulekites appears to be very like the situation of the Lamanites: (1) they had no records, and (2) they denied the existence of their Creator.

In regards to post #1, let me state that we don't know how hard it was for the Nephites and the Lamanites to communicate. We just know that they communicated. If the language that Amulon taught to the Lamanites is the "spoken language" of the Nephites, it is very likely that the Lamanites were using in a corrupted language. It is quite clear that the Lamanites were illiterate until this time, not knowing how to keep their record.

The question in post #1 is "who had to be taught the language of the Nephites?" Verse 4 indicates "all the people of the Lamanites" were taught. Given our own history and the descriptions of the BOM cultures, I can readily conceive of several classes of people in the BOM. Just as in our own day, some had "chances for learning" and others did not (3 Ne. 6:12). I believe that the ruling classes (i.e., the kings) were in this first group for both the Nephites and the Lamanites. So, we have in verse 4 a description of "public education."

-- Beta

-- Beta

[zerinus]

Be patient with this old guy...maybe this has been pointed out before.

Even so, what do you think?

I was reading Mosiah 24 and came across this passage:

So, Laman was king over a numerous people and he appointed the rascal Amulon

and his cohorts to teach all his people the language of the Nephites. But up until

this passage, there seems to be no problem of communication between

Lamanites and Nephites...Alma and the lecherous priests of Noah were able

to plead their causes, and Amulon spoke with the Lamanite king, Laman.

So, who was it that had to learn the language of the Nephites?

Bernard

The word "language" is used in the Book of Mormon with several different meanings. This search result finds all the occurrences of the word in the BoM, D&C, and PoGP. A careful reading reveals the diversity of its uses. One of the many meanings it takes is education and learning, as the following verses demonstrate:

1 Nephi 1

:

2 Yea, I make a record in the

language

of my father, which consists of the

learning of the Jews and the language of the Egyptians

.

Jacob 7

:

4 And he was

learned,

that he had a perfect knowledge of the

language

of the people; wherefore, he could use much flattery, and much power of speech, according to the power of the devil.

Enos 1

:

1 Behold, it came to pass that I, Enos, knowing my father that he was a just manâ??for he

taught me in his language, and also in the nurture and admonition of the Lord

â??and blessed be the name of my God for itâ??

Mosiah 1

:

2 And it came to pass that he had three sons; and he called their names Mosiah, and Helorum, and Helaman. And he caused that they should be

taught in all the language of his fathers,

that thereby they might become

men of understanding;

and that they might

know concerning the prophecies

which had been spoken by the mouths of their fathers, which were delivered them by the hand of the Lord.

Mosiah 9

:

1 I, Zeniff,

having been taught in all the language of the Nephites,

and having had a knowledge of the land of Nephi, or of the land of our fathersâ?? first inheritance, . . .

Mosiah 24

:

4 And he appointed teachers of the brethren of Amulon in every land which was possessed by his people; and thus

the language of Nephi

began to be taught among all the people of the Lamanites.

Alma 7

:

1 Behold my beloved brethren, seeing that I have been permitted to come unto you, therefore I attempt to address you

in my language;

yea,

by my own mouth,

seeing that it is the first time that I have spoken unto you by the words of my mouth, . . .

In the above verses to be taught in the "language of . . ." means to be given a proper education. In those days they didn't have physics, chemistry, and mathematics as part of their educational curriculum. Their education consisted primarily in reading and writing, and familiarizing themselves with the body of their literary output, the most important of which (for those that believed) was their scriptural literature. Thus in Mosiah 24:4, when it says that "the language of Nephi began to be taught among all the people of the Lamanites," it simply means that they began to be educated with the same kind of education that the Nephites hadâ??which consisted mainly of reading and writing.

zerinus

[cinepro]

Be patient with this old guy...maybe this has been pointed out before.

Even so, what do you think?

I was reading Mosiah 24 and came across this passage:

So, Laman was king over a numerous people and he appointed the rascal Amulon

and his cohorts to teach all his people the language of the Nephites. But up until

this passage, there seems to be no problem of communication between

Lamanites and Nephites...Alma and the lecherous priests of Noah were able

to plead their causes, and Amulon spoke with the Lamanite king, Laman.

So, who was it that had to learn the language of the Nephites?

Bernard

It's also good to keep in mind that Mosiah 24 takes place over 450 years from Lehi's landing and the subsequent mixture with the existing cultures and populations. It's pretty amazing that the Nephites and Lamanites were able to preserve a common language over that much time.

But if we take an attitude that the land was empty when Lehi landed (except for the Mulekites and Coriantumr), then the verse would mean the Lamanite people were simply illiterate, and their prosperity only came in v.6 after they could read and write (kind of like the Native Americans of Joseph Smith's day...?)