Baptisms For The Dead

[Flyonthewall]

I hope my comments are taken in the spirit in which they are given. A few months ago I was taken in the "night visions" and taught an extraordinary lesson by the Lord.

In the vision I was standing over a man filled with a demonic presence and I was "battling" the demon and pulling it out of the individual. Just about the time I had it completely out, the Lord stopped me. Actually, he pleaded with me to stop which really puzzled me (because I thought I was doing this man a great favor). Basically, I was going against the agency of the man and this is something that even the Lord would not do! While this is an authority granted us, I was required to seek the persons permission first or wait for him to ask me before I could do this.

There is more to the lesson, but this is enough to share regarding this topic of baptism for the dead. We do this for the dead because we believe it really does have eternal ramifications! We say that the individual can choose to accept it or not, but in the vision, the person had no choice in the matter (I took his agency in the matter away)...the deliverance was done for him.

So is there really any difference between this and baptism for the dead? No, because it was already done for them. Now if angels came to earth with a list of those seeking this sacrament done for them, then it would carry more authority because it was requested by the dead seeking baptized. Again, I offer this in all loving kindness. Just offering another perspective to considerâ?¦

Thanks for sharing that experience, I'm sure it is very special to you.

There is really a difference between you "night vision" and baptising for the dead. We say it over and over again, the work is done for the dead, and they have the choice to accpet it or reject it. It is not forced upon them.

An example: In a marathon race, there are tables set out along the way with bottled water for the use of the race participants. They are not forced on the runners, the runners can take them or not, but it is still made available to them.

[abqfriend]

A difficult situation:

Respecting Catholic tradition and the beliefs of your deceased relatives would preclude you seeking such records.

-but I understand where you are coming from-as you see it as an important work.

You have the right to seek any Public records that you wish on your relative. You may wish to also ask the local parish from where your relative's Private church records are kept-and ask-but my guess is you will get a no answer.

I have a husband-who has terminal pancreatic cancer-he will die soon-this month? year? Next year?

-Only God knows-but relatively soon. He is a devout Catholic as I am.

I have a daughter-who has no religious affiliation. Should she ever become LDS and wish to have her father baptized by proxy I would request not.--the answer would be no. If My dead husband could speak at that point-his answer would be no.

It is all about respecting the religion/faith of another living or dead.

As Catholics-we believe that we go to an intermediate place- called purgatory-definately not Hell, but not Heaven either-this is our belief. We ultimately do reach heaven. We ask respect of our afterlife beliefs.

-Carol

Forgive my ignorance on Last Rites, I was merely trying to illustrate a point.

I believe the LDS church goes out of their way to respect the religious traditions of others. However, as has been brought up in a previous post, one of our beliefs is that we must redeem the dead by doing proxy work for them.

I have Catholics in my family tree. These are my family members. Do I not have the right, moral or otherwise, to perform proxy work on behalf of my own family? In doing my geneological work on my family, it may require me to use Catholic records to track down my own family. I would not be going into Catholic records with the intent to do work for everyone in those records, but just the people belonging to my family. Is it not possible for me to use Catholic records in the search for my family, and still respect Catholic tradition?

[ERayR]

Catholics do not recognize LDS baptisms as valid -and -equally-LDS do not recognize Catholic baptisms as valid.

As a Catholic-I care-it is ultimately about respecting another's religious values.

I see such an issue as showing disrespect toward my religious values and beliefs.

The the issue is about respecting another's religious values-however in-error you may feel those values are.

-Carol

Carol:

Can you not see that this works two ways. I LDS and I am doing grneological research of my ancestors. After I get back a few generations my family was catholic. They are my beloved ancestors and I want my ancestors to have the "opportunity" to partake of the same ordinances that I so dearly believe. Why does the Catholic Church have the right to separate me from my ancestors?

[selek]

A difficult situation:

Respecting Catholic tradition and the beliefs of your deceased relatives would preclude you seeking such records.

-but I understand where you are coming from-as you see it as an important work.

You have the right to seek any Public records that you wish on your relative. You may wish to also ask the local parish from where your relative's Private church records are kept-and ask-but my guess is you will get a no answer.

I have a husband-who has terminal pancreatic cancer-he will die soon-this month? year? Next year?

-Only God knows-but relatively soon. He is a devout Catholic as I am.

I have a daughter-who has no religious affiliation. Should she ever become LDS and wish to have her father baptized by proxy I would request not.--the answer would be no. If My dead husband could speak at that point-his answer would be no.

It is all about respecting the religion/faith of another living or dead.

As Catholics-we believe that we go to an intermediate place- called purgatory-definately not Hell, but not Heaven either-this is our belief. We ultimately do reach heaven. We ask respect of our afterlife beliefs.

-Carol

Which desire most LDS would happily respect. The Church even has specific regulations in place to prevent people from doing the work over the objections of immediate family.

The earliest that the work might be done (IIRC) without the consent of your immediate family would be your grandchildren or great-grandchildren. This is in place to explicitly respect the wishes and feelings of those who know you best.

If, however, your descendants are LDS, they will be entitled to exercise their judgement and offer those ordinances to you by doing the proxy work. If, on the otherside, you are still opposed to the work, you will still be free to reject it.

God does not and will not hold us responsible for sins that we did not ourselves commit. By the same token, he cannot and will not hold you responsible for any ordinances that your descendents might do on your behalf.

Your immediate wishes do not and should not interfere with their right to worship as they please.

[abqfriend]

If your ancestors chose the Catholic faith tradition-it was their choice. It was their belief.

The Catholic Church or any church/synagogue/mosque has the right to keep Private the records of those living and dead of their faith tradition.

-I understand your dilemma.

If I were LDS I might think the same way.

As a Catholic -I think differently.

-Carol

Carol:

Can you not see that this works two ways. I LDS and I am doing grneological research of my ancestors. After I get back a few generations my family was catholic. They are my beloved ancestors and I want my ancestors to have the "opportunity" to partake of the same ordinances that I so dearly believe. Why does the Catholic Church have the right to separate me from my ancestors?

[bluebell]

Carol:

Can you not see that this works two ways. I LDS and I am doing grneological research of my ancestors. After I get back a few generations my family was catholic. They are my beloved ancestors and I want my ancestors to have the "opportunity" to partake of the same ordinances that I so dearly believe. Why does the Catholic Church have the right to separate me from my ancestors?

I think another interesting question is, why does the Catholic church believe it has the right to refuse people an opportunity to convert away from the Catholic faith, just because they are no longer alive. Obviously, i'm not speaking about legal rights here.

We obviously can't really know how anyone feels about the church they belonged to after they are dead-we don't know what new knowledge is revealed to them after mortality is over. We can hold to our beliefs about what their feelings are after dead, but it's really impossible to know for sure because they may learn things in death that us living are unaware of (and that's as true for deceased LDS people as any other religious group).

What rights does any church have to forbid their dead from the opportunity to change their minds if new knowledge is imparted to them in the afterlife? What rights to family members have in the same situation?

At least the LDS belief keeps the agency and free will of the deceased person intact and gives them the final say. The Catholic church (which i respect very much by the way) gives no agency to their deceased members. Family members who refuse to let the names of their loved ones be invovled in temple ordinances also take away any say their dead loved ones have in the matter and take all that power on themselves.

If someone could help me, after i was dead, to further my relationship with my Savior and obey His will, and one of my family members made me doing that impossible, no matter their good intentions, i would not be pleased with them and they would hear about it when we were both dead.

[Flyonthewall]

If your ancestors chose the Catholic faith tradition-it was their choice. It was their belief.

The Catholic Church or any church/synagogue/mosque has the right to keep Private the records of those living and dead of their faith tradition.

-I understand your dilemma.

If I were LDS I might think the same way.

As a Catholic -I think differently.

-Carol

Ultimately, the Catholic church has final say on whether or not the records are shared. I would hope there could be some mutual agreement reached over this as there are already many records that have been transcribed.

[abqfriend]

Please respect the Catholic belief on the after-life.

You do not have to agree with it.

The Catholic Church believes that there are no conversions after the point of death. Our faith teaches us that at the point of death-we are judged.

There is no conversion after death and our judgement-such is the Catholic teaching on this.

You do not have to agree with it-all we ask is respect on this issue.

-Carol

I think another interesting question is, why does the Catholic church believe it has the right to refuse people an opportunity to convert away from the Catholic faith, just because they are no longer alive. Obviously, i'm not speaking about legal rights here.

If someone could help me, after i was dead, to further my relationship with my Savior and obey His will, and one of my family members made me doing that impossible, no matter their good intentions, i would not be pleased with them and they would hear about it when we were both dead.

[Hoops22]

Please respect the Catholic belief on the after-life.

You do not have to agree with it.

The Catholic Church believes that there are no conversions after the point of death. Our faith teaches us that at the point of death-we are judged.

There is no conversion after death and our judgement-such is the Catholic teaching on this.

You do not have to agree with it-all we ask is respect on this issue.

-Carol

Can we get in on that to?

[Koneko]

Hi Carol,

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it does help in understanding where the resistance comes from. We believe that before the Millenium that our spirits reside in the Spirit World...I may be wrong, but I believe this may be similar to what you call purgatory. Here each spirit is given the complete fullness of God's plan. When we are on earth, we live through faith and all do the best we can in every religion to do what we believe God expects of us. It is our belief that in the Spirit World we are finally given the chance to know precisely. If you got to purgatory and you found out that God's will was even slightly different then what you had believed in good faith on earth, would you alter your perceptions to align with him? It is our belief that many will, and this is why we offer the ordinances for them. Because not all, but many of the spirits who were faithful in their own ways on earth will choose to follow God. Since they no long have a body, it is necessary to do this vicariously, and since we have no way of knowing who chooses to accept it, we must offer it to every spirit to accept or deny. I can tell you have strong dedication to your church, so I am sure this will not sway you. But hopefully it will aid in the spirit of understanding why we pursue ordinances for all spirits.

In your belief of Purgatory, would you be aware that someone was trying to baptize you? Just curious if it is something that annoys you in this life, or if you feel it would be something that would annoy in the afterlife. I sure hope that if I get to the Spirit World or even Purgatory and it ends up that I was wrong...someone will help me to get back to God.

[saemo]

In our last discussion about this, I brought up that at our parish, we prayed for the soul of Gordon B. Hinckley, during Mass.

Some LDS were quite offended at this, and it isn't even a rite (or ordinance), only a prayer.

[Koneko]

They were? I think that's actually very sweet of you.

[saemo]

Hi Carol,Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it does help in understanding where the resistance comes from. We believe that before the Millenium that our spirits reside in the Spirit World...I may be wrong, but I believe this may be similar to what you call purgatory. Here each spirit is given the complete fullness of God's plan. When we are on earth, we live through faith and all do the best we can in every religion to do what we believe God expects of us. It is our belief that in the Spirit World we are finally given the chance to know precisely. If you got to purgatory and you found out that God's will was even slightly different then what you had believed in good faith on earth, would you alter your perceptions to align with him? It is our belief that many will, and this is why we offer the ordinances for them. Because not all, but many of the spirits who were faithful in their own ways on earth will choose to follow God. Since they no long have a body, it is necessary to do this vicariously, and since we have no way of knowing who chooses to accept it, we must offer it to every spirit to accept or deny. I can tell you have strong dedication to your church, so I am sure this will not sway you. But hopefully it will aid in the spirit of understanding why we pursue ordinances for all spirits.In your belief of Purgatory, would you be aware that someone was trying to baptize you? Just curious if it is something that annoys you in this life, or if you feel it would be something that would annoy in the afterlife. I sure hope that if I get to the Spirit World or even Purgatory and it ends up that I was wrong...someone will help me to get back to God.

Purgatory is not the same as the LDS belief of Spirit World.

They were? I think that's actually very sweet of you.

[abqfriend]

Thankyou for sharing-quite a dilemma.

Purgatory exists for us only after our death and not before our life. We do not believe in a pre-mortal existence for ourselves.

In purgatory-we are cleansed to the point that we are ready for Heaven.

In the middle ages-purgatory was thought more of as closer to hell with fire symbolism-but this is not taught today. Catholics believe that we can pray for our deceased as well as ask The Saints and The Blessed Virgin Mary to pray for us too. Masses can be celbrated for our deceased in purgatory. Good works of those on earth can be directed toward those in purgatory too.

The doctrine of purgatory is largely based on Church tradition and with a few verses from Sacred Scripture including the Book of Maccabees.

I know what God's will is-and I do not think such a belief would change for me in purgatory.

I will probably be there-because I did not follow His will perfectly.

Catholics are not Milleniumists.

If I were in purgatory-I don't know if someone would be baptizing me in proxy-such a concept is foreign to Catholic theology.

-Carol

Hi Carol,

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it does help in understanding where the resistance comes from. We believe that before the Millenium that our spirits reside in the Spirit World...I may be wrong, but I believe this may be similar to what you call purgatory. Here each spirit is given the complete fullness of God's plan. When we are on earth, we live through faith and all do the best we can in every religion to do what we believe God expects of us. It is our belief that in the Spirit World we are finally given the chance to know precisely. If you got to purgatory and you found out that God's will was even slightly different then what you had believed in good faith on earth, would you alter your perceptions to align with him? It is our belief that many will, and this is why we offer the ordinances for them. Because not all, but many of the spirits who were faithful in their own ways on earth will choose to follow God. Since they no long have a body, it is necessary to do this vicariously, and since we have no way of knowing who chooses to accept it, we must offer it to every spirit to accept or deny. I can tell you have strong dedication to your church, so I am sure this will not sway you. But hopefully it will aid in the spirit of understanding why we pursue ordinances for all spirits.

In your belief of Purgatory, would you be aware that someone was trying to baptize you? Just curious if it is something that annoys you in this life, or if you feel it would be something that would annoy in the afterlife. I sure hope that if I get to the Spirit World or even Purgatory and it ends up that I was wrong...someone will help me to get back to God.

[saemo]

Hi Carol,

Thanks for sharing your viewpoint, it does help in understanding where the resistance comes from. We believe that before the Millenium that our spirits reside in the Spirit World...I may be wrong, but I believe this may be similar to what you call purgatory.

Purgatory is a place between judgment and Heaven, where the spirits of those judged to be with God are purified. Those judged as damned are never in purgatory.

Here each spirit is given the complete fullness of God's plan. When we are on earth, we live through faith and all do the best we can in every religion to do what we believe God expects of us.

We believe God judges all against what they know.

John 17

20 Remember the word I spoke to you, ⁸ 'No slave is greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. 21 And they will do all these things to you on account of my name, ⁹ because they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken ¹⁰ to them, they would have no sin; but as it is they have no excuse for their sin. 23 Whoever hates me also hates my Father. 24 If I had not done works among them that no one else ever did, they would not have sin; but as it is, they have seen and hated both me and my Father.

It is our belief that in the Spirit World we are finally given the chance to know precisely.

This is very strange, I mean, if you are dead and whoever or whatever imparts this knowledge to you, of course based on the circumstances of certain knowledge, you are going to accept it. The certain knowledge being...are there other spirits that you believe would deceive in the Spirit World? If not, the certain knowledge is that you are being given the absolute truth. Who would not accept this?????

If you got to purgatory and you found out that God's will was even slightly different then what you had believed in good faith on earth, would you alter your perceptions to align with him?

Purgatory is where God purifies the souls of those judged to be with Him in Heaven. It is a place of healing, where "alignment" with Him is precisely the purpose.

It is our belief that many will, and this is why we offer the ordinances for them. Because not all, but many of the spirits who were faithful in their own ways on earth will choose to follow God.

Again, why would they decline something that is so sure?

As already stated by Carol, Catholics believe that we are judged at the time of our death. This is why we pray for the souls of the dead. We pray that they will find the mercy of God and everlasting life in His Kingdom.

In your belief of Purgatory, would you be aware that someone was trying to baptize you?

It is not known what the experience of Purgatory is like.

Just curious if it is something that annoys you in this life, or if you feel it would be something that would annoy in the afterlife. I sure hope that if I get to the Spirit World or even Purgatory and it ends up that I was wrong...someone will help me to get back to God.

We cannot say how God will judge anyone. We do believe that God just and merciful.

[Thunderfire]

Thanks for sharing that experience, I'm sure it is very special to you.

There is really a difference between your "night vision" and baptising for the dead. We say it over and over again, the work is done for the dead, and they have the choice to accpet it or reject it. It is not forced upon them.

I must say that this is a most difficult discussion for me. I desire to be completely respectful of the LDS and the work of the church. It would have been much easier to simply bow out and not discuss these things, because we all know how important this work is for the church. So again, I mean no disrespect whatsoever.

In this response I would like to address the belief that the dead can "choose" to accept the baptism done by proxy for them or not. The very fact that baptism for the dead is performed is rooted in the belief that baptism must be completed in this life. And we can agree on the verse stating what is bound on earth is bound in heaven. So the point of my vision was to teach me how NOT to bind things on people who did not first ask for it. That it takes away the very agency that even God will not tread upon.

We say that the dead have a choice to accept the baptism by proxy or not, yet it can also be interpreted in scripture that this is bound upon them regardless of their choice. Yes, we can say that they would be foolish not to accept it, or be happy that it was done for them. Yet (my belief and interpretation of scripture) it is still our act of binding upon them something they did not request of us to do. Basically, there is no agency to choose when something is bound upon them.

Anyway, just my thoughts offered in compete respect.

[bluebell]

In our last discussion about this, I brought up that at our parish, we prayed for the soul of Gordon B. Hinckley, during Mass.

Some LDS were quite offended at this, and it isn't even a rite (or ordinance), only a prayer.

They were dumb to be offended, in my opinion. It just goes to show that just because someone is offended by something that we do, doesn't mean the act itself is actually offensive.

[bluebell]

Please respect the Catholic belief on the after-life.

You do not have to agree with it.

The Catholic Church believes that there are no conversions after the point of death. Our faith teaches us that at the point of death-we are judged.

There is no conversion after death and our judgement-such is the Catholic teaching on this.

You do not have to agree with it-all we ask is respect on this issue.

-Carol

I absolutely respect the Catholic church's right to do whatever they legally can with their parish records. Me voicing my thoughts on it is not the same thing as being disrespectufl.

One does not have to remain silent on an issue in order to show respect for those who believe differently.

It would be nice though, if the Catholic church respected LDS beliefs concerning baptism for the dead as well, but i guess in such an instance, the Catholic church can't see a way to demand respect for their beliefs in the afterlife while also giving it equally to the LDS for theirs.

I can understand that.

[saemo]

I absolutely respect the Catholic church's right to do whatever they legally can with their parish records. Me voicing my thoughts on it is not the same thing as being disrespectufl.

One does not have to remain silent on an issue in order to show respect for those who believe differently.

It would be nice though, if the Catholic church respected LDS beliefs concerning baptism for the dead as well, but i guess in such an instance, the Catholic church can't see a way to demand respect for their beliefs in the afterlife while also giving it equally to the LDS for theirs.

I can understand that.

There is no disrespect implied. Beliefs are respected. Though, we don't believe that it is morally correct to help you with religious rites that are in error.

[bluebell]

There is no disrespect implied. Beliefs are respected. Though, we don't believe that it is morally correct to help you with religious rites that are in error.

I can truly understand the Catholic position in the matter. I just wish that Catholics and others could understand our position as well.

LDS also don't believe that it is morally correct to help anyone keep deceased people from receiving blessings they may truly want-but many people on this thread seem to imply that our moral beliefs on the topic really don't matter and are actually, to some, offensive.

Such a stance automatically implies a disrespect for LDS beliefs because it implies that our beliefs about OUR family members are less valid than non-LDS beliefs.

It really is a fine line for us LDS, who feel morally and spiritually obligated to help our deceased brothers and sisters with something they can't do on their own anymore that is vital to their spiritual welfare, and who also don't want to be offensive to those who do agree with LDS beliefs.

And i don't really fault or accuse those who would hinder the LDS from doing baptisms for the dead of being disrespectful so much as i don't understand what they want us to do. It seems like they will only be happy if we give their moral beliefs more weight than we give our own, and i don't see that as being at all fair for anyone to ask of anyone else.

[Koneko]

As already stated by Carol, Catholics believe that we are judged at the time of our death.

Interesting, so you all believe that purgatory is the waiting place AFTER judgement. Well at least I understand why you believe baptisms for the dead have no meaning. But if judgement has already been rendered what does it matter if they are baptized? Do you believe this will have a negative affect on their eternal state? Or are you just annoyed that we presume our doctrine to be more correct?

The certain knowledge being...are there other spirits that you believe would deceive in the Spirit World? If not, the certain knowledge is that you are being given the absolute truth. Who would not accept this?????

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can elaborate, but I will give it my best go as per my understanding. I believe bad and deceitful spirits will be held in Spirit Prison and would not have the opportunity to spread lies and deceit. Ministering would be done to every spirit, even those in Spirit Prison, by those who already have a knowledge of the gospel. Even Jesus Christ himself after his death, so not much room for argument on what the truth is there. As to who would not accept this, well just look around you. There are many people who would not be happy to live by God's will, even if they knew what that was. Just ask any of our atheist friends, I'm sure many of them would rather go it themselves even if it were revealed that God created us and had a plan for us.

[abqfriend]

I as a Catholic am indeed distressed that someone of another faith-may think that their beliefs/doctrines are more imortant than my own.

You are asking for Private Church records of a Catholic from a Catholic parish or similar.

I think respect should be shown. Those who have lived and died in the Catholic faith-chose that faith and what they believed in. Only God knows their ultimate destination, but hopefully they will progress from purgatory to heaven. There is no spirit world in Catholic thinking compared to LDS thinking.

For a Catholic-their eternal state is decided the moment they die which we call Judgement.

I am aware we have different theological outlooks-both have limitations when confronting another religious tradition. Those limitations should be understood and respected.

If we indeed have a loving God/Heavenly Father-I believe that ultimately-despite our efforts or lack of them--We have a loving God who sees our intentions with deep love for each of us.

-Carol

Interesting, so you all believe that purgatory is the waiting place AFTER judgement. Well at least I understand why you believe baptisms for the dead have no meaning. But if judgement has already been rendered what does it matter if they are baptized? Do you believe this will have a negative affect on their eternal state? Or are you just annoyed that we presume our doctrine to be more correct?

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can elaborate, but I will give it my best go as per my understanding. I believe bad and deceitful spirits will be held in Spirit Prison and would not have the opportunity to spread lies and deceit. Ministering would be done to every spirit, even those in Spirit Prison, by those who already have a knowledge of the gospel. Even Jesus Christ himself after his death, so not much room for argument on what the truth is there. As to who would not accept this, well just look around you. There are many people who would not be happy to live by God's will, even if they knew what that was. Just ask any of our atheist friends, I'm sure many of them would rather go it themselves even if it were revealed that God created us and had a plan for us.

[saemo]

I can truly understand the Catholic position in the matter. I just wish that Catholics and others could understand our position as well.

LDS also don't believe that it is morally correct to help anyone keep deceased people from receiving blessings they may truly want-but many people on this thread seem to imply that our moral beliefs on the topic really don't matter and are actually, to some, offensive.

Such a stance automatically implies a disrespect for LDS beliefs because it implies that our beliefs about OUR family members are less valid than non-LDS beliefs.

It really is a fine line for us LDS, who feel morally and spiritually obligated to help our deceased brothers and sisters with something they can't do on their own anymore that is vital to their spiritual welfare, and who also don't want to be offensive to those who do agree with LDS beliefs.

And i don't really fault or accuse those who would hinder the LDS from doing baptisms for the dead of being disrespectful so much as i don't understand what they want us to do. It seems like they will only be happy if we give their moral beliefs more weight than we give our own, and i don't see that as being at all fair for anyone to ask of anyone else.

Parish records are an indication that the person chose Catholicism, you are second-guessing your ancestors, which is disrespectful to many cultures.

[saemo]

Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than I can elaborate, but I will give it my best go as per my understanding. I believe bad and deceitful spirits will be held in Spirit Prison and would not have the opportunity to spread lies and deceit. Ministering would be done to every spirit, even those in Spirit Prison, by those who already have a knowledge of the gospel. Even Jesus Christ himself after his death, so not much room for argument on what the truth is there. As to who would not accept this, well just look around you. There are many people who would not be happy to live by God's will, even if they knew what that was. Just ask any of our atheist friends, I'm sure many of them would rather go it themselves even if it were revealed that God created us and had a plan for us.

As a former atheist, if I found myself in after life being taught about God, there wouldn't really be any question that God exists.

[saemo]

Interesting, so you all believe that purgatory is the waiting place AFTER judgement. Well at least I understand why you believe baptisms for the dead have no meaning. But if judgement has already been rendered what does it matter if they are baptized? Do you believe this will have a negative affect on their eternal state? Or are you just annoyed that we presume our doctrine to be more correct?

We don't believe your rite has an effect at all. It is the intent, that you believe they need this rite at all. It is completely erroneous and against everything a Catholic (and others) believe. And I guess it goes against my trust in God. You think you have to do something to someone who has already been judged, as though you have a part in their judgement.

If you did a proxy baptism for me or any of my non-LDS relatives now, while we are living, I would be livid. I can't imagine it would be any different when I am dead.