Lds Prophets - Official Doctrine Vs. Personal Opinions

[wes]

It has been the position of the Mormon Church that not everything said by LDS prophets is considered official doctrine. Thus, my question is this - How is one to determine what is official and what is opinion?

[thesometimesaint]

wes:

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/co...mormon-doctrine

[wes]

wes:

http://newsroom.lds.org/ldsnewsroom/eng/co...mormon-doctrine

Taken from the article you posted:

"This doctrine resides in the four â??standard worksâ? of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith."

How does a person determine which declarations and proclomations are official versus those that are opinion?

[thesometimesaint]

wes:

Any interpretations of Scripture must of necessity come from their source. In the case of personal interpretation, we are all to seek the Lords guidance as to their meaning to us individually.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

I already told you in my post in one of your other threads

The only source of official doctrine, are those things within the Standard Works or items presented and sustained by the First Presidency and Council of the Twelve to be binding upon the Church and its members.

Anything else is valuable and may be of use for explanation, exhortation, and instruction, but does not bear the weight of scripture in the LDS canon, regardless of his position in the Church. Talks presented in General Conference are merely for the spiritual edification of the Saints.

The writings, teachings, and opinions; simply as they are, of the prophets of God, are acceptable only to the extent they are in harmony with what God has revealed to them.

[wes]

wes:Any interpretations of Scripture must of necessity come from their source. In the case of personal interpretation, we are all to seek the Lords guidance as to their meaning to us individually.

I was not referring to interpretation of scripture. I was referring to the doctrine that comes from declarations and proclomations. How does a person determine which declarations and proclamations are official and which are opinion?

I already told you in my post in one of your other threads

That does not answer the question posed in this thread.

[LDSMusic483]

Taken from the article you posted:

"This doctrine resides in the four â??standard worksâ? of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith."

How does a person determine which declarations and proclomations are official versus those that are opinion?

Official declarations and proclamations are for example the manifesto, the proclamation of the family, the living christ, and the revelation on the priesthood.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

Oh, sorry wes, I was trying to respond to the later question of "Declarations and Proclamations", and what I was trying to say its that they aren't on par with scripture. Official statements do take precedence over revelations in scripture pertinent to other times or over statements by previous presidents of the Church, but if it is intended to be beholden to the people of the church, it needs to be brought before the people and sustained, by which it is then doctrine.

[wes]

I already told you in my post in one of your other threads

But that still doesn't explain how to determine which declarations/proclamations made by LDS prophets are official and which are opinion.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

Oh, offical statements. Well, one indicator would be the venue. It is not sufficient to quote sayings by the leaders in discourses. They do not constitute as sources of offical stances or doctrines of the Church, and are not binding upon the Church.

Another is the Holy Ghost, such thing can be discerned by the Spirit.

[jana at jade house]

It is pretty clear when something is to be part of the LDS Canon. It is witnessed, signed and endorsed by the First Presidency. It is clearly stated (like for example, all worthy men can hold the Priesthood.) And it is introduced internationally (not just to a few at a stake meeting, for instance.)

Where many people both in and out of the Church have confusion is the difference between Gospel Truth and Church tradition. They are not always the same thing.

[wes]

Oh, offical statements. Well, one indicator would be the venue. It is not sufficient to quote sayings by the leaders in discourses. They do not constitute as sources of offical stances or doctrines of the Church, and are not binding upon the Church.

So you're saying one indicator is venue. Which venues would be considered official?

It is pretty clear when something is to be part of the LDS Canon. It is witnessed, signed and endorsed by the First Presidency. It is clearly stated (like for example, all worthy men can hold the Priesthood.) And it is introduced internationally (not just to a few at a stake meeting, for instance.) Where many people both in and out of the Church have confusion is the difference between Gospel Truth and Church tradition. They are not always the same thing.

Okay, let's take your example of "all worthy men can hold the prieshood." What constitutes a worthy man?

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

General Conference, that is a proper venue, and one indicator. I guess the other indicators would be it has to be identified as an offical statement when it is said.

~Edited

[wes]

General Conference, that one indicator.

Ok, what others?

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

There is a writen venue, first the texts of his words is to be reveiwed by him to ensure it's correctness, and get in something like the Ensign. If its the first presidency message in the Ensign, then it has been reveiwed by all three first presidency, and is should be considered an offical statement.

[SolarPowered]

wes,

LDSMusic gave essentially a complete list of Official Declarations and Proclamations, to wit:

The Manifesto (Official Declaration 1), The Proclamation on the Family, The Living Christ, and the revelation on the priesthood (Official Declaration 2). There may be one or two that we've missed, but that's essentially the complete list.

[Koneko]

Hi Wes,

As to the issue in particular or discerning "official" proclaimations and declarations, it is my understanding that they will exhibit most of the following characteristics:

• Issued to address general misunderstandings of the doctrine in the 4 standard works.
  
• Established and sustained by the First Presidency and Quorum of Twelve
  
• Contains wording or titling of Declaration, Proclaimation, We declare, or We proclaim.
  
• Taught by the First Presidency as a presidency and consistently proclaimed in official Church publications.
  
• Submitted to the officers of the Church and the members of the Church to vote upon
  
• Accepted and practiced by wards and members of the church.
  

Let's look at an example. The Family A Proclaimation to the World was issued to address confusion over marriage, gender and other issues. It starts -- "We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim..." It was read by President Hinckley in a General Relief Society Meeting. I can personally attest that it was taught in my ward a few months ago, and I have seen it referred to in official church publications.

I wanted to thank you for taking the time to read the article previously posted by thesometimesaint. It helps in the discussion to know that you are evaluating the information provided so that we can assume familiarity. In addition there is a very good one by mormon apologist Stephen E. Robinson, and some information by Joseph Fielding Smith here that I thought might be enlightening for you on this subject if you care to dig a bit deeper.

http://www.lightplanet.com/mormons/priesth...s/doctrine.html

As for official venues or publications, I haven't had time to completely peruse it, but I believe the things listed here are considered official publications and venues.

http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgne...RD&locale=0

Cheers.

[Ray Callis Hatton III]

Kudos. I've got to write that down somewhere so I'll remember.

[BCSpace]

Taken from the article you posted:

"This doctrine resides in the four â??standard worksâ? of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith."

How does a person determine which declarations and proclomations are official versus those that are opinion?

The other half of the key phraseology added...

With divine inspiration, the First Presidency (the prophet and his two counselors) and the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (the second-highest governing body of the Church) counsel together to establish doctrine that is consistently proclaimed in official Church publications. This doctrine resides in the four â??standard worksâ? of scripture (the Holy Bible, the Book of Mormon, the Doctrine and Covenants and the Pearl of Great Price), official declarations and proclamations, and the Articles of Faith.

In other words, if it is published by the Church, it is doctrine.

[LeSellers]

In other words, if it is published by the Church, it is doctrine.

providing all other criteria are met.

It must be proclaimed, explicitly proclaimed, as doctrine. It must have the concurrence of all fifteen Apostles. It must be published to the Saints and the world.

Lehi

[BCSpace]

In other words, if it is published by the Church, it is doctrine.

providing all other criteria are met.

It must be proclaimed, explicitly proclaimed, as doctrine. It must have the concurrence of all fifteen Apostles. It must be published to the Saints and the world.

You simply restated what I said. Being published by the Church is the same thing. There are no other criteria listed.

[wes]

You simply restated what I said. Being published by the Church is the same thing. There are no other criteria listed.

Does that mean anything published by Deseret which the church owns?

[BCSpace]

Does that mean anything published by Deseret which the church owns?

No. The publisher must literally be the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So do you have an example of something you would like to know is doctrine or not?

[wes]

No. The publisher must literally be the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. So do you have an example of something you would like to know is doctrine or not?

How about Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, who was one of the 12 apostles, or Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Fielding Smith, the 10th prophet of the Mormon Church? Or how about The Journal of Discourses which include sermons by Brigham Young, or The History of the Church which include sermons by Joseph Smith?

[Bernard Gui]

It has been the position of the Mormon Church that not everything said by LDS prophets is considered official doctrine. Thus, my question is this - How is one to determine what is official and what is opinion?

When you consider what few sayings of ancient prophets and apostles were chosen to

put in our modern bibles, do you think that everything they ever spoke or wrote

was included? Do you believe that everything they ever spoke or wrote was

the infallible word of God?

Bernard