Neurological Journal: "alcohol Shrinks Your Brain"

[J.S. Mill]

Then let me articulate another formulation available to people who hold my position: people die when water is misused. People die when automobiles are misused. People die when baseball bats are misused. That doesn't make water, automobiles, or baseball bats bad things that nobody should ever use.

J.S. Mill:Which .8% of your brain to do you want to lose?

.8% of brain volume /= .8% of intelligence, memory, or anything like that. Please stop pretending that it is.

[Calm]

Then let me articulate another formulation available to people who hold my position: people die when water is misused. People die when automobiles are misused. People die when baseball bats are misused. That doesn't make water, automobiles, or baseball bats bad things.

The inherent problem with alcohol is that it has the property of encouraging its own misuse by having the natural property of removing inhibitions, clouding judgment etc. I do not believe any of the things you listed have any potential negative effect on mental functioning.

[katherine the great]

Thatâ??s why when youâ??re drunk, everything you say is brilliant.

To yourself, at least...

[Doctor Steuss]

To yourself, at least...

I'm usually the only one listening.

[J.S. Mill]

The inherent problem with alcohol is that it has the property of encouraging its own misuse by having the natural property of removing inhibitions, clouding judgment etc.

Sure, if you drink enough, and if you're irresponsible enough to put yourself into a position where being inebriated is a bad idea. That's exactly what I have in mind when I talk about misusing alcohol.

I do not believe any of the things you listed have any potential negative effect on mental functioning.

Really? What if someone were completely submerged in water for five minutes? What if someone hit someone else in the head with a baseball bat? What if someone drove an automobile so irresponsibly that they crashed into someone else and caused massive head injuries?

See what I'm getting at here?

[Calm]

I'm usually the only one listening.

Not when you post on the board.

[groove]

People die from alcohol when they misuse it. Big deal -- people die from water when they misuse it.

Took a stroll in the Surgical Intensive Care Unit the other day, and amazingly enough, while 14 out of the 25 patients there were there with at least some alcohol-related tie in (hit by drunk driver, were the drunk driver, liver transplant due to alcohol-related liver disease, intoxicated in bar fight etc. etc.), not a single person was in there due to water misuse. Interesting.

By the way, brain shrinkage can be a good thing if you are the trauma-prone type. Gives the ole brain more room to ralttle around in there. maybe it is a survival mechanism for the alcohol lovers who seem to be more prone to such things.

[J.S. Mill]

Took a stroll in the Surgical Intensive Care Unit the other day, and amazingly enough, while 14 out of the 25 patients there were there with at least some alcohol-related tie in (hit by drunk driver, were the drunk driver, liver transplant due to alcohol-related liver disease, intoxicated in bar fight etc. etc.), not a single person was in there due to water misuse. Interesting.

But there were plenty of people in there due to automobile misuse, and you're not up in arms about people driving.

[thesometimesaint]

J.S. Mill:

Brain size/volume has a direct correlation to intelligence/memory/personality. Just ask those family members whom a relative suffer from Alzheimer's Syndrome. If that .8 percent loss is centered in a vital function. Survival becomes problematic.

[J.S. Mill]

I should note that I'm in favor of drinking licenses. I agree that some people have no business with alcohol, but I don't think responsible drinkers should be treated the same as alcoholics or drunk drivers.

[groove]

But there were plenty of people in there due to automobile misuse, and you're not up in arms about people driving.

You are no doubt correct. However, as these particular folks seemed otherwise capable of getting from point A to B in one piece in a sober state, I wouldn't say that the use of the automobile was the problem here.

Edit...

...I don't think responsible drinkers should be treated the same as alcoholics or drunk drivers.

I agree (see my posts over on the "drinking with coworkers" thread). All the same, placing alcohol misuse into the same category as misuse of water or eggwhites or Barry Manilow songs is a vast stretch.

[Calm]

I should note that I'm in favor of drinking licenses.

Interesting idea. For all liquids or just alcohol?

I agree that responsible drinkers (which I assume is a majority of them) should not be treated the same as those who do not take proper precautions using the stuff.

[J.S. Mill]

J.S. Mill:Brain size/volume has a direct correlation to intelligence/memory/personality. Just ask those family members whom a relative suffer from Alzheimer's Syndrome. If that .8 percent loss is centered in a vital function. Survival becomes problematic.

Sure, but is that the case with the study linked to in the original thread? No, it's not.

You are no doubt correct. However, as these particular folks seemed otherwise capable of getting from point A to B in one piece in a sober state, I wouldn't say that the use of the automobile was the problem here.

So you're saying that if there was no automobile involved, these drunk people still would have crashed into trees at 40 mph? Color me skeptical.

[J.S. Mill]

Interesting idea. For all liquids or just alcohol?

For alcohol and other substances that alter brain chemistry.

I agree that responsible drinkers (which I assume is a majority of them) should not be treated the same as those who do not take proper precautions using the stuff.

Thank you. See? My position's not so unreasonable.

[thesometimesaint]

J.S. Mill:

As a philosophical argument no level of alcohol is the standard to which LDS subscribe. It can be argued what level of diminution of brain size, and its correlate of diminished personality are acceptable within a huge population(such as the US). But the effects on the individual are nothing less than catastrophic

[J.S. Mill]

I agree (see my posts over on the "drinking with coworkers" thread). All the same, placing alcohol misuse into the same category as misuse of water or eggwhites or Barry Manilow songs is a vast stretch.

I agree, which is why my support for Barry Manilow song licenses is conspicuously absent from this thread.

[AddamS]

J.S. Mill:

Suppose you are getting ready to board a airplane. You look out the terminal window and see a person frantically removing bolts and rivets from the plane you are about to get on. You ask a nearby airline representative to look and see if it is safe to remove bolts and rivets from a plane preparing to leave with you on it? He answers "Sure go right ahead and get on. The plane has more than enough, and it will never miss them them anyway.".

Have a nice relaxing flight.

If volume equaled efficiency, we'd still be using the "super cpmputers" of the 70's that took up an entire warehouse...

[thesometimesaint]

Expositor:

To continue the airplane analogy, a flying wing is the most efficient. But outside of a couple of military purposes. It has found no commercial use.

To use your computer of the 1970 model. It would be comparable to pulling out those IC chips and not replacing them.

[J.S. Mill]

J.S. Mill:

As a philosophical argument no level of alcohol is the standard to which LDS subscribe. It can be argued what level of diminution of brain size, and its correlate of diminished personality are acceptable within a huge population(such as the US). But the effects of alcohol misuse on the individual are nothing less than catastrophic

Fixed. Will you just agree that there's a difference between responsible and irresponsible alcohol use already? Jeez.

[groove]

So you're saying that if there was no automobile involved, these drunk people still would have crashed into trees at 40 mph? Color me skeptical.

Further discussion is probably not conducive to the main thread topic, but the the principle of "proximate cause" seems to be applicable here.

[thesometimesaint]

J.S. Mill:

My only argument is that there is no level of level of brain shrinkage induced by alcohol that is acceptable to LDS.

[J.S. Mill]

Further discussion is probably not conducive to the main thread topic, but the the principle of "proximate cause" seems to be applicable here.

I agree. This principle is precisely why alcohol is not illegal in the U.S.

J.S. Mill:My only argument is that there is no level of level of brain shrinkage induced by alcohol that is acceptable to LDS.

Then what did you mean by "the effects on the individual are nothing less than catastrophic"? That's a pretty strong statement.

[Tchild2]

J.S. Mill:

My only argument is that there is no level of level of brain shrinkage induced by alcohol that is acceptable to LDS.

Brain shrinkage = not acceptable. Waist enlargement from buffet line overconsumption = acceptable.

[J.S. Mill]

J.S. Mill:

My only argument is that there is no level of level of brain shrinkage induced by alcohol that is acceptable to LDS.

Obviously, because alcohol is not acceptable to LDS. But the acceptability of alcohol is exactly what we're arguing about, so I don't understand the point you're trying to make here.

[thesometimesaint]

Tchild2:

Gravity and old age has its expanding possibilities. So far we haven't made it a weighty matter between the Church and the member.

Should we?