Elder Bruce R. Mc Conkie

[consiglieri]

In April of 1985, I was attending General Conference at the stake center in Austin, Texas.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie spoke and bore what would be his final testimony. His image was projected on a big screen at the front of the chapel.

While he bore his testimony, I felt the spirit in a powerful way; as if it were a mighty and rushing wind swooping down from his image on the screen and blowing directly into my face and past me toward the back of the chapel.

Although I have had differences with Elder McConkie in some of the things he said and the way he said them, I always have to leaven those opinions with this experience.

I was wondering if anybody else experienced anything similar during his final testimony.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[thesometimesaint]

consiglieri:

It still gives me "warm fuzzies".

[soren]

In April of 1985, I was attending General Conference at the stake center in Austin, Texas.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie spoke and bore what would be his final testimony. His image was projected on a big screen at the front of the chapel.

While he bore his testimony, I felt the spirit in a powerful way; as if it were a mighty and rushing wind swooping down from his image on the screen and blowing directly into my face and past me toward the back of the chapel.

Although I have had differences with Elder McConkie in some of the things he said and the way he said them, I always have to leaven those opinions with this experience.

I was wondering if anybody else experienced anything similar during his final testimony.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

McConkie's open contempt for, mockery of, and blatant lies about the Catholic Church disqualify him from consideration as a teacher of truth or honorable person.

[Buckeye]

I don't personally recall the talk because I was too young (though I have seen it several times since). But my parents and others have commented to having similar experiences to yours.

McConkie's open contempt for, mockery of, and blatant lies about the Catholic Church disqualify him from consideration as a teacher of truth or honorable person.

Hey Soren! I see you jumped over to the good side of the river. Welcome!

[The Spectre]

In April of 1985, I was attending General Conference at the stake center in Austin, Texas.

Elder Bruce R. McConkie spoke and bore what would be his final testimony. His image was projected on a big screen at the front of the chapel.

While he bore his testimony, I felt the spirit in a powerful way; as if it were a mighty and rushing wind swooping down from his image on the screen and blowing directly into my face and past me toward the back of the chapel.

Although I have had differences with Elder McConkie in some of the things he said and the way he said them, I always have to leaven those opinions with this experience.

I was wondering if anybody else experienced anything similar during his final testimony.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

Yeah Consig. I did. I was watching that alone in my parent's basement and I was in high school at the time. I was working in my own stand alone testimony, but probably wasn't there yet. I used to horrify my parents by dabbling in anti-mormon literature and calling (mostly just for kicks) a weekly recorded anti mo message line. My parents even bought me a cassette tape titled something like "How to Recognize the Untruths in Anti-Mormon Publications." I'm pretty sure I never listened to it.

In any event, I'd been getting a lot of noise from these dabbled in sources about how the Brethren were deceiving us all and the usual "Mormons have good hearts and are good people, they're just duped by their leaders. We must save them from themselves!" I canâ??t really remember how closely I was paying attention to his talk at first, but I'm pretty sure I was aware that he was in failing health and thinking that this may be the last time hearing him, I was probably paying a bit more attention than usual.

His testimony really struck me. I disagree with a lot of what he produced over the years and even revel in my non-coffee, non-black tea hot drinks and those equally bad cold drinks (ice ice babyâ??see Mormon Doctrine), but when I heard his testimony, I knew that he was someone trying to live the path that Jesus set out for us. He may not have been right about everything he said or did, but I got a good witness that he, and the rest of the Brethren were not doing what they do with the intention of deceiving anyone. So that raises another question for me, how does one balance the triple threat of sincerity, authority and lack of certainty?

[consiglieri]

McConkie's open contempt for, mockery of, and blatant lies about the Catholic Church disqualify him from consideration as a teacher of truth or honorable person.

I can understand why Catholics would have a difficult time with Elder McConkie.

Hey, I'm a Mormon and I have a hard time with him!

But I can't deny my experience and would not be honest with myself if I didn't factor it into my own personal McConkie equation.

All the Best!

--Consiglieri

[EVOLVING]

I was wondering if anybody else experienced anything similar during his final testimony.

I can't say that I remember having any spiritual experiences during the live event, I was probably busy playing with my Atari.. I do remember having a written copy on my mission, and I obtained a bootleg VHS copy before I was released. Elder Mc Conkie's "especial witness" was definitely a topic we discussed often. He was very sincere, intelligent, and articulate. I will always remember that testimony. My opinion has changed over time, and I no longer believe he actually met Christ "in the flesh".. He may have had some powerful spiritual experiences in his lifetime, but face to face conversations with resurrected beings is not one I can buy anymore..

I did have a very spiritual moment during a mission conference where Elder Loren C. Dunn stood in front of 300+ elders to bear his testimony -- almost in tears, he lifted his hand, and said " I know that God lives" -- he repeated that sentence two more times, and then overcome with emotion just sat down... the whole room was so silent -- wow, good times!! then I also remember speaking with my two cousins after we returned home - one served in St Louis, the other in Chicago -- It turns out that was just Elder Dunn's style, he did that in most conferences he presided over..

~evolving

[jwhitlock]

McConkie's open contempt for, mockery of, and blatant lies about the Catholic Church disqualify him from consideration as a teacher of truth or honorable person.

My, my.

While I don't agree with some of what Elder McConkie wrote, I think this goes a little far.

Or should we take a look at the lives of some of the Popes as a comparison point?

[DispensatorMysteriorum]

My, my.

While I don't agree with some of what Elder McConkie wrote, I think this goes a little far.

Or should we take a look at the lives of some of the Popes as a comparison point?

oh man.... hahahaha that was cruel beyond belief, but right on.

[oats]

2 Nephi 2:4 And thou hast beheld in thy youth his glory; wherefore, thou art blessed even as they unto whom he shall minister in the flesh; for the Spirit is the same, yesterday, today, and forever.

I don't know what constitutes a 'special' witness, but I think that one talk confirmed his witness in the eyes of many. Does witnessing Christ physically make the event more special or imprinting?

[soren]

I can understand why Catholics would have a difficult time with Elder McConkie.Hey, I'm a Mormon and I have a hard time with him!But I can't deny my experience and would not be honest with myself if I didn't factor it into my own personal McConkie equation.All the Best!--Consiglieri

Thanks for the understanding, but allow me to vent for a moment.What I really dislike about McConkie, and other apostles who make fritters of Catholic teachings, is that their example persuades me that the LDS Church's evangelistic policies are not actually intended to make converts of people like me. When I argue against Mormonism I consider it no less necessary to make an argument that is true as to make one that is persuasive. Whether I am always successful, it is at least my objective to make arguments that would hold water in the mind of an LDS scholar as much as a regular Joe. I think you guys deserve that, and I certainly wouldn't teach another Catholic to make an argument that I know Latter-day Saints have a perfectly reasonable answer for. In very deep way, I find the perennial apostolic straw-man bashing to be contemptuous not only to Catholics but even more so to Mormons, for the same reason I find Ed Dekker to be insulting to evangelicals. It's like saying, "You can't handle the truth."

Or should we take a look at the lives of some of the Popes as a comparison point?

Go right ahead.

[Robspectre]

I am ROBSPECTRE. The reason I am not THE SPECTRE is because you used it before I could. I hate you.

Anyways, I like Bruce R and I do believe he gets a bad wrap for some of his statements. I really believe anyone as vocal as he was is going to say, type, or expound something that is wrong, or offensive. All I can say is if I live half the Christian life he did, I will be just fine.

[Anijen]

Thanks for the understanding, but allow me to vent for a moment.What I really dislike about McConkie, and other apostles who make fritters of Catholic teachings, is that their example persuades me that the LDS Church's evangelistic policies are not actually intended to make converts of people like me. When I argue against Mormonism I consider it no less necessary to make an argument that is true as to make one that is persuasive. Whether I am always successful, it is at least my objective to make arguments that would hold water in the mind of an LDS scholar as much as a regular Joe. I think you guys deserve that, and I certainly wouldn't teach another Catholic to make an argument that I know Latter-day Saints have a perfectly reasonable answer for. In very deep way, I find the perennial apostolic straw-man bashing to be contemptuous not only to Catholics but even more so to Mormons, for the same reason I find Ed Dekker to be insulting to evangelicals. It's like saying, "You can't handle the truth."Go right ahead.

I think you are being too harsh on Elder McConkie. He was only bringing to light some of the things the Catholic church has done including the Popes. You may say what you want about him but I do not think Elder McConkie ever put a dead person on trial such as Pope Stephen VI did. Or he fathered illegitimate children or commit adultery as Pope Alexander VI. Its not like Brother Mconkie had a greed for power or a history of is littered with the blood of martyrs, nor did he sell indulgences, was involved in political or worldly overthrows. I cant remember Brother McConkie scheming to plot and kill or arresting all the Knights Templar under trumped up charges of sodomy and blasphemy.

Sorry I usually don't get this riled up but its so easy for our critics to slam our church, our beliefs or our leaders and then be so defensive about their own religion. I seem to catch a glimpse of a double standard. Just my opinion I could be wrong.

[The Spectre]

I am ROBSPECTRE. The reason I am not THE SPECTRE is because you used it before I could. I hate you.

Anyways, I like Bruce R and I do believe he gets a bad wrap for some of his statements. I really believe anyone as vocal as he was is going to say, type, or expound something that is wrong, or offensive. All I can say is if I live half the Christian life he did, I will be just fine.

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful--DEAD--but beautiful. And boy can I dance, proving that yes, in fact, the Dead Can Dance.

Good to read you again Robby BTW. We spectres must stick together.

[consiglieri]

Good to read you again Robby BTW. We spectres must stick together.

Going purely from memory here, aren't you a big city police detective by the name of Corrigan?

[CMZ]

Sometimes I think an angel must've told Elder McConkie that his name would be had for good and for evil among all nations. I sincerely believe if he were here today he would be able to allay many, actually all, of the concerns expressed in this thread, even the ones about the Catholic Church and its members. When people talk about him I always get the feeling they are talking about a parodied, caricatured version of him that is so distorted as to actually become false.

I do remember watching the talk when it aired live and being very impressed with it although the next day I remembered almost nothing of the actual words he used. Then the next day in seminary we discussed highlights of conference and I raised my hand and said, "Elder McConkie gave a very powerful talk." Now I have big chunks of it memorized.

It is often quoted in sacrament meeting talks, Sunday School and Relief Society/Priesthood lessons and it is also quite often misquoted, all of which makes it a good candidate for inclusion in the Doctrine and Covenants. Maybe it never will be but it was certainly an influential talk whose power seems to not have been diminished with time.

Few people nowadays realize that President Hinckley was conducting that session of conference. After Elder McConkie sat down President Hinckley came to the stand and said, "Thank you, Elder McConkie, for that moving testimony given under difficult circumstances." You could tell that President Hinckley clearly had been touched by it.

[CMZ]

We spectres must stick together.

I thought you were named Hal Jordan for a while.

[consiglieri]

In brightest day, in blackest night.

[CMZ]

Don't even start me.

No evil shall escape my sight.

[JAHS]

The following link has the text of the talk and at the end an interesting story from sister McConkie about the writing of the talk.

http://www.mormonhaven.com/lasttalk.htm

[LDSToronto]

Don't hate me because I'm beautiful--DEAD--but beautiful. And boy can I dance, proving that yes, in fact, the Dead Can Dance.

Good to read you again Robby BTW. We spectres must stick together.

If Phil shows up, I'm outta here

[russianwolfe]

So that raises another question for me, how does one balance the triple threat of sincerity, authority and lack of certainty?

With Faith in Jesus Christ, who is sincere and certain and the source of all of our authority.

Marvin

[russianwolfe]

It is often quoted in sacrament meeting talks, Sunday School and Relief Society/Priesthood lessons and it is also quite often misquoted, all of which makes it a good candidate for inclusion in the Doctrine and Covenants. Maybe it never will be but it was certainly an influential talk whose power seems to not have been diminished with time.

Nothing prevents you from printing it out and cutting it down and putting it in your D&C.

And thanks for that reminder that Br. Hinckley was conducting that session. Makes it even more special for me.

Marvin

[jwhitlock]

Go right ahead.

Well, since you're fully aware that the documented excesses of some of "Peter's Successors" dwarf anything that McConkie is guilty of, I would suspect that they - in turn - could be equally disqualified as teachers of truth and honorable persons. In fact, their excesses would appear to basically disqualify them of having anything to do with God in any capacity at all.

So, what was the purpose of your little over-generalized shot at Elder McConkie? Are you saying that denigration of the Catholic church disqualifies a person from having any redeeming qualities at all? And is it, then in your view, an exercise in futility to look at Elder McConkie's character is a whole in order to get a more accurate picture of the man, as Consig appears to be doing in this thread?

[CMZ]

Nothing prevents you from printing it out and cutting it down and putting it in your D&C.

I know!