Why Do Christians Say Mormons Are Not Christian?

[Akboy]

If they believe they are Christian and are following their interpretation of the bible how they see fit, who are you or I to say anything? Only God really knows. And since when are dictionaries God? Just because they have man made definitions doesn't mean they're the authority on earth.

The problem with evangelicals, protestants and whatever else they call themselves, think is that just because they believe they are Christians, they get to decide who else is as well, and it doesn't work that way. No One but God decides. No man made organization has the right to tell some other organization they aren't Christian.

Now, if Baptists want to tell another group they aren't baptists, that is different, because to be a BAPTIST, a sub-sect of Christianity, you must follow the definitions of what that MAN MADE organization has defined as to what is a BAPTIST.

When you talk with a Hindu or Buddhist about the differences between your beliefs, do you decide their beliefs are wrong? Do you decide what is and isn't truth? If they believe they are following the truth how they see fit, who are you to say anything? No one but God decides what the truth is.

But Mormons do say something, don't they? You know you're following the God and creator of the world, and it's your duty to tell other people about God and His gospel.

Evangelicals are doing the same thing. God is the only one that decides what the truth is, and they believe the truth, the gospel, says salvation is by grace alone and trying to add works to grace in any way is in effect rejecting that grace. They believe Mormon doctrine rejects the gospel, just like Hindu and Buddhist beliefs reject the gospel, so they believe it's their duty to tell Mormons about the gospel.

[cjcampbell]

Just to add my 2 cents: A Christian is as a Christian does. There seems to be very little of 'Christianity' or Christ about those people who presume to decide who is a Christian and who is not. Pride and intolerance have no place in Christianity.

[soren]

WHoa!!

I know that you do not think that mormons are not Christians. So that is the probelem Ihave. Johnny can spout it all he wants, but after a while it gets old. I could in turn do that same to him but that isnt what Christ taught, and both you and him know it.

I am not criticizing you for disagreeing with Johnny, I am criticizing you for responding to him by insulting his principles. The reason he repeats himself is because he is not being heard. What person on this thread has argued against Johnny by actually interacting directly with his points as they derive their content from Catholic theology and tradition? Dan Peterson has, but that's it. And his response, though I agree with it, is not so definitive as to render Johnny's position untenable outright. Actually, Johnny's argument about Ignatius of Antioch is, although circumstantial, among the most historically responsible arguments I have seen made by someone who promotes his thesis. And his basic claim that the Trinity defines Chrsitian belief is very significant to the Catholic worldview - a premise I accept myself, though not to the same degree of absoluteness. Yet the responses here reflect zero appreciation of that very salient point. To dismiss his arfuments as "rhetoric" is to dismiss his faith as "rhetoric" and it doubles the insult that Johnny has already received by having the substance of his claims persistently ignored, forcing him to repeat himself.

[MatthewG]

So would you agree the LDS religion is man made?

No I don't in fact. But that isn't the topic of this thread. I believe that the LDS Church is the true Church of our Lord and Savior on this Earth. The Church of Jesus Christ. It was restored, by GOD, through a human man and Prophet.

[Billy]

If a list has to be made, then you really have no idea about mormonism.I guess we can start with the basics:Creator of the world

I was speaking about God the Father.

No I don't in fact. But that isn't the topic of this thread. I believe that the LDS Church is the true Church of our Lord and Savior on this Earth. The Church of Jesus Christ. It was restored, by GOD, through a human man and Prophet.

I thought that at one time as well.

[Flyonthewall]

I am not criticizing you for disagreeing with Johnny, I am criticizing you for responding to him by insulting his principles. The reason he repeats himself is because he is not being heard. What person on this thread has argued against Johnny by actually interacting directly with his points as they derive their content from Catholic theology and tradition? Dan Peterson has, but that's it. And his response, though I agree with it, is not so definitive as to render Johnny's position untenable outright. Actually, Johnny's argument about Ignatius of Antioch is, although circumstantial, among the most historically responsible arguments I have seen made by someone who promotes his thesis. And his basic claim that the Trinity defines Chrsitian belief is very significant to the Catholic worldview - a premise I accept myself, though not to the same degree of absoluteness. Yet the responses here reflect zero appreciation of that very salient point. To dismiss his arfuments as "rhetoric" is to dismiss his faith as "rhetoric" and it doubles the insult that Johnny has already received by having the substance of his claims persistently ignored, forcing him to repeat himself.

I have heard Johnny's arguments, but they do not hold water unless he(meaning he controls what the definition is) defines what "christian" is. Johnny defines being a "christian" as interpreting the bible the same way he and the Catholic church does.

To me, this would be the same as a dog saying that cats aren't mammals because cats do things differently than dogs. A dog does not define what a mammal is, a dog can only say what a dog is.

In like manner, "Christian" is a heading under which there are Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, etc... A sub group trying to hijack the main group just doesn't work. Catholics do not define what "Christian" is, they only define what Catholics are. What Johnny and those that echo his sentiment are trying to do is hijack the term "Christian" to be a sub-group of Catholics. It just doesn't work that way.

So Johnny can repeat himself as many times as he likes, but he and the Catholic church do not get to define the term "Christian", only "Catholic". When "they" make their own definition of "christian" it only holds water only to those in "their" group.

[Flyonthewall]

I was speaking about God the Father.I thought that at one time as well.

The topic is Christianity. Is Jesus Christ God the Father? or is He God the Son?

[nathansoz]

Hi! New to this topic but doing some research and forming some opinions. They could be wrong, but I am 16 and love to learn. I myself am an evangelical christian and skimming this post have found some very good points. It seems so often that the evangelical church gets caught up in itself and adopts an 'I'm better than you' attitude. It pains me to see this. From my readings, it seems the main difference between what people would call 'mainline Christianity' and 'lds Christianity' is a matter of doctrine. But this makes me think, why are we arguing about doctrine and accusing others of being wrong, when a real christian would be out in the world, being the hands and feet of Jesus. Isn't real Christianity loving the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength; matched with faith in Jesus Christ. That seems pretty all encompassing to me. It seems like we evangelicals are too quick to judge others when we need to look at our own lives and see how we can better carry out Jesus commands. I don't know if any of this made sense. And I would like to hear what you guys think. Thanks!

[Hannah Rebekah]

No I don't in fact. But that isn't the topic of this thread. I believe that the LDS Church is the true Church of our Lord and Savior on this Earth. The Church of Jesus Christ. It was restored, by GOD, through a human man and Prophet.

The elephant in the room is the power to act in God's name...the priesthood.This is the crowning truth that makes it the true gospel of Jesus Christ. The rest have truth but not the fullness of his truths. As much as ones would like to deny the need for the priesthood or that it was fulfilled by Christ are denying all those scriptures in the Bible of laying on hands for the 'gift of the Holy Ghost.' Using 'sola scripta' here is a list of the elements that make up the true Christian Church:

27 Points of the True Church

1. The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ.

[Ref.: John 10:7-9; 14:6; Ephesians 5:23; 1 Corinthians 1:13;

1 Timothy 2:5]

Jesus Christ himself clarified this point, during His visit to the ancient inhabitants of the America's, He stated: "And how be it my church save it be called in my name? For if a church be called in Moses' name then it be Moses' church; or if it be called in the name of a man then it be the church of a man; but if it be called in my name then it is my church, if it so be that they are built upon my gospel." (Book of Mormon, 3 Nephi 27:8.)

2. God's church organized by Jesus Christ.

[Ref.: Matthew 16:18; Acts 2; Ephesians 2:20; 4:5, 11-14]

3. Initial restorer must become a martyr.

[Ref.: Matthew 23:37; John 3:16-17; Hebrews 9:15-17]

In every dispensation there has been a martyr for the cause of truth. The Jew's stoned and killed the prophets for telling them the truth; truths that they didn't want to hear. Many prophets and later the apostles all sealed their testimonies, of the truth, with their own blood. (Not to mention the ultimate sacrifice for us all, that being: the suffering, death, and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.)

4. The true church must have a foundation of prophets and apostles.

[Ref.: Amos 3:7; Ephesians 2:19-20; 4:11; 1 Corinthians 12:28]

5. The true church must have the same organization as Christ's church did anciently, meaning: it (the true church) must have every fulfilled commandment and or ordinance, such as, tithes and offerings (a full tenth), sealing's and anointing's, and all of the commandments.

[Ref.: Ephesians 4:4-16; (Matthew 18:17; Acts 6:1-6; 20:17, 28)]

6. The true church must claim divine authority.

[Ref.: Matthew 17:1-5; Hebrews 5:4-10; 1 Peter 2:5]

7. The followers or members of the church must be called saints.

[Ref.: 1 Corinthians 1:2; Romans 12:9-21]

8. Followers to be called a strange and peculiar people.

[Ref.: Deuteronomy 14:2; 26:18; Titus 2:14; 1 Peter 2:9]

9. The true church must have a strict health code.

[Ref.: Leviticus 11; 12; 13; 14; 15; Deuteronomy 23:10-14;

28:27-28, 59-61]

10. The true church must have NO paid ministry, laymen only at every level (i.e.: not paid to perform ordinances, administrations, or to minister).

[Ref.: Isaiah 45:13; Titus 1:7; 1 Peter 5:2]

11. The true church must baptize (by immersion) by those who have the

proper priesthood authority.

[Ref.: Matthew 3:13-16; Acts 8:38-39]

12. The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands, again by those holding the proper priesthood authority.

[Ref.: Acts 8:14-17; 19:6; Hebrews 6:2]

13. The true church must have ancient, as well as, modern and additional scriptures.

[Ref.: Isaiah 29:4, 11-15; Ezekiel 37:15-23; Revelation 14:6 (Exodus 20:24; Nehemiah 12:22; Acts 20:26)]

14. The true church must practice divine healing, by the laying on of hands by those having the proper priesthood authority.

[Ref.: Exodus 15:26; Deuteronomy 7:15; Mark 3:14-15; 16:17;

1 Corinthians 12:8-12]

15. The true church must keep tight records of past generations (i.e.: family histories and genealogies).

[Ref.: Malachi 4:5-6; Luke 3:23-38]

16. The true church must teach that God the Father, His son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost (the Godhead) are three separate and distinct individuals [glorified beings of flesh and bone].

[Ref.: Matthew 3:16-17; 11:27; Mark 9:7; Luke 10:22; John 17:11; 20:17;

Acts 2:36; Revelation 1:6]

17. The true church must teach that God and Jesus Christ have bodies of flesh and bone.

[Ref.: Genesis 1:26-27; 5:1; 9:6; Exodus 33:9-11; 21-23; Numbers 12:7-8;

Luke 24:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; James 3:8-9]

a. Resurrected Beings of Flesh and Bone

If these points weren't important, that being, that we must know that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ are separate and distinct glorified individuals, with resurrected bodies of flesh and bone; if this wasn't important, then it wouldn't have been important to prove to Thomas who He was. Yet, He still had Thomas feel of His wounds [John 20:27] (as the other apostles had already done) so that he too could be a witness of Him. A witness that He lives and that everything He had stated was true.

b. A Second Witness of His Resurrection

In the Book of Mormon account of the Savior's visit to the America's, the first thing that He had the people do was feel of the wounds in His hands and feet. This was so that they too, just as those in the Old World, would be witnesses of His divinity and truthfulness (3 Nephi 11:7-15).

18. The officers of the church must be called of God and be ordained with His priesthood, "as was Aaron."

[Ref.: Exodus 28:1; 40:13-16; Hebrews 5:4]

19. The true church must claim direct (current) revelation from God.

[Ref.: Deuteronomy 5:4; Joel 2:28-29; Amos 3:7; John 14:21-23]

20. The true church must be a missionary church.

[Ref.: Matthew 28:19-20; Mark 16:15-20; (Isaiah 52:10)]

21. The true church must be a restored church.

[Ref.: Matthew 17:11; Acts 3:19-20; 1 Thessalonians 2:1-3;

Revelation 14:6-7]

a. Falling Away and Restoration

In order to accept that there was a restoration then we must accept that there was an apostasy or falling away. Jesus Christ stated that there would be a falling away, so too did Paul and John write of this. However, they taught that there would also be a restoration of all of the lost gospel truths prior to the Second Coming. [ibid.]

b. General Apostasy

Others wrote of the falling away and a need for a restoration of the pure gospel truths. In fact, one of the historians of the day of the apostolic period, named Hegesippus, speaking of the time up until the murders and martyrdom's of the apostles, stated the following:

"The church continued until then [the passing of the apostles] as a pure and uncorrupt virgin; whilst if there were any at all that attempted to pervert the sound doctrine of the saving gospel, they were yet skulking in dark retreats; but when the sacred choir of apostles became extinct, and the generation of those that had been privileged to hear their inspired wisdom had passed away, then also the combinations of impious error arose by the fraud and delusions of false teachers. These also, as there were none of the apostles left, henceforth attempted, without shame to preach their false doctrine against the gospel of truth. Such is the statement of Hegesippus." [As recorded in the Storia Ecclesiastica (Ecclesiastical History) Book III, chapter 32.]

The six volume translation of Mosheim, into English in 1819 by Archibald Maclaine, clearly shows the deterioration and crumbling of the Church after the apostles were killed quicker than replacements could fill the empty positions. Even though this was a call for alarm amongst the faithful, they knew it had been prophesied as so and they accepted it.

c. Apostasy and Dark Ages

One of the founders of Methodism, John Wesley, commented on the falling away or loss of Divine gifts and decline of spiritual gifts. A decline to the point of a total loss of all-spiritual truth, power and authority to even act in God's name. He stated:

"It does not appear that these extraordinary gifts of the Holy Spirit were common in the Church for more than two or three centuries [a.d.]. We seldom hear of them after that fatal period when the Emperor Constantine called himself a Christian and from a vain imagination of promoting the Christian cause thereby heaped riches and power and honour upon Christians in general, but in particular upon the Christian clergy.

"From this time [forth] they almost totally ceased, very few instances of the kind being found. The cause of this was not, as has been supposed, because there was no more occasion for them, because all the world was become Christians. This is a miserable mistake; not a twentieth part of it was then nominally Christian. The real cause of it was that the love of many, almost all Christians, so-called, was waxed cold. The Christians had no more of the spirit of Christ than other heathens. The Son of Man, when He came to examine His Church could hardly find faith upon earth. This was the real cause for the extraordinary gifts of the Holy Ghost were no longer to be found in the Christian church---because the Christians were turned heathen again, and only had a dead form left."

[John Wesley's Works, Volume VII, 89; 26-27.]

The Church of England had a similar position about the apostasy. They stated in Homily against Peril of Idolatry, the following:

"So that laity and clergy, learned and unlearned, all ages, sects, and degrees of men, women, and children of whole Christendom---an honorable and most dreadful thing to think---have been at once drowned in abominable idolatry of all other vices most detested of God, and most damnable to man; and that by the space of eight hundred years and more."

d. Promise, Hope, and Faith in the Restoration

As I have studied Western civilization and its religious origins, it has become quite obvious that most all learned men of the Bible (as they had the chance to see it and read it in printed form) quickly realized that the [Catholic] church wasn't the same as described in the Biblical record. They realized that the Gospel of Jesus Christ had been changed and that many things that were in the Bible were totally disregarded by the church of the day. This why so many strove for reform (i.e.: Wesley, Luther, Calvin, and many others) but all realizing that the true church, as in the Biblical record, still wasn't found on the face of the earth.

In fact, speaking on this very subject of what had happened to the truth and if it would ever be found on the earth again, Lutus Gratus (a Catholic Priest) wrote, in 1739 a.d.:

"The old true gospel, and its truth's thereat, is lost. False doctrines prevail in all churches on the face of the earth today. All we can do is exhort the people to be just, fear God, shun evil, and pray. Prayer and purity may cause an angel to visit a deep distressed soul, but I will tell you---God will have spoken within a hundred years. He will restore the old church again. I see a little band of people led by a prophet and persecuted, burnt out, and murdered. But in a valley that lies on the shore of a great lake, they will build a city and make a beautiful land, have a temple of magnificent splendor and also possess the old priesthood, with teachers, deacons, etc. From every nation shall the true believers be gathered by speedy messengers, and then shall the almighty God speak to the disobedient nations, with thunder, lightning and destruction's such as man has never known." [Hope of Zion, written in 1739.]

(The above statement aptly describes the struggles of the L.D.S. church and its trip to the Great Salt Lake valley.)

22. The true church must be a temple building church and its people must be a temple-attending people.

[Ref.: Exodus 33:7-11; 1 Chronicles 22:5-19; Revelation 21:22]

23. The true church must practice baptisms or (proxy) work for the dead.

[Ref.: 1 Corinthians 15:20, 29; 1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6]

24. The true church must be able to explain the purpose of our lives and existence (i.e.: where we came from, why we are here, and where we are going).

[Ref.: 1 Peter 1:19; Jeremiah 1:4-5; Ephesians 1:3-6; (Romans 5:12,18;

Hebrews 11:6; 9:15-22; Acts 24:15; Matthew 25:31-46;

1 Corinthians 15:40-42; 2 Corinthians 12:2)]

a. Where We Came From

It is imperative to our existence to understand our purpose within it. We must understand our divine heritage (where we came from) and that heritage is that we came from a pre-existent spirit world. As God said to Jeremiah that He knew him long before he was ever formed [Jeremiah 1:4-5]. In fact, Paul taught, through out his epistles, that we had all accepted our callings and lot in life prior to the earth's creation. [ibid.]

b. Why we are Here

The scriptures teach us that we must strive to do right, find our way through faith, and gain personal growth experiences along the way (the why of why we are here). Eventually coming to a knowledge of Christ and His gospel. [Ref.: All of the Holy Scriptures.]

c. Where we are Going

But none of this would have any meaning if we didn't have anything to hope for, or have some understanding of why we must be good or choose the right (where we are going after this life). That is what gives us hope, that being, a knowledge of where we are going. Christ taught that if we would follow Him and keep His commandments, then we would have what He had. In fact, He stated that in His Father's house there are many mansions and that He was going there to prepare a place for His followers (John 14:2).

Now does this mean that all those who go to God's kingdom will just sit around singing praises all day? Is this what salvation is? Is this all that we have to hope for? Again, if Jesus promised us that we shall have all that He has, if we are faithful, doesn't that mean more than singing praises forever? No, this isn't what salvation is all about.

In Psalms we read that the promises to the faithful, in the next life, are great. As follows: "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." [Psalms 82:6] And Jesus continues this same instruction to the Jews. He stated: "Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are Gods?"

[John 10:34] ...Even Paul further clarified this subject by stating: "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." [Acts 17:29]

d. Hope

This is what gives us hope, the hope of a just reward. Having this hope not only requires mankind to live better, since we are the "offspring of God," but brings joy in knowing that we have a divine promise to hope for and strive towards. This hope also comes from the promise God made to Moses, as set forth in modern L.D.S scripture: "For behold, this is my work and my glory---to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man." [Moses 1:39 (Pearl of Great Price)]

(Note: I'm not saying that we will be THE God, we just have the promise of His blessing and inheriting "mansions" in His kingdom. Meaning that He will always be our Lord, however, if we are faithful then we may have the opportunity of being lord's over our own inheritance or kingdom [John 14:2].)

25. The actions of the members of the true church are and will make a difference, a difference that the whole world will see and recognize.

[Ref.: Matthew 5:14-16; 7:20; John 13:34-35]

26. The true church will have ALL information together to form one verifiable truth.

[Ref.: Malachi 3:6; Hebrews 13:8; James 1:17]

27. There must be a spiritual way to find out if it is all true.

[Ref.: Matthew 7:7-8; James 1:5-6; Revelation 3:20]

[Billy]

So Johnny can repeat himself as many times as he likes, but he and the Catholic church do not get to define the term "Christian", only "Catholic". When "they" make their own definition of "christian" it only holds water only to those in "their" group.

What is the definition of Christian? (and who makes up the definition)

What are the requirements for being a Christian?

[Billy]

The elephant in the room is the power to act in God's name...the priesthood.:

Where is that elephant?

Can you point out in the Bible where it says that the Apostles had the priesthood, either the Aaronic or the Melchezidek?

[MatthewG]

When you talk with a Hindu or Buddhist about the differences between your beliefs, do you decide their beliefs are wrong? Do you decide what is and isn't truth? If they believe they are following the truth how they see fit, who are you to say anything? No one but God decides what the truth is.But Mormons do say something, don't they? You know you're following the God and creator of the world, and it's your duty to tell other people about God and His gospel.Evangelicals are doing the same thing. God is the only one that decides what the truth is, and they believe the truth, the gospel, says salvation is by grace alone and trying to add works to grace in any way is in effect rejecting that grace. They believe Mormon doctrine rejects the gospel, just like Hindu and Buddhist beliefs reject the gospel, so they believe it's their duty to tell Mormons about the gospel.

I know their beliefs are wrong, and I know they aren't following Christ's teachings, they them selves don't call themselves Christians, they don't recognize Jesus Christ as our Lord and Savior but they aren't also trying to call themselves Christian. Yes it is my job to tell people what GOD and Jesus Christ teaches, it is my job teach the restored Gospel and the real road to salvation, which you personally would actually learn if you'd take off the perverted blinders you're wearing. But if you or any other person says, sorry I don't believe than who am I to say, "oh well you're not Christian anyway".

What is the definition of Christian? (and who makes up the definition)What are the requirements for being a Christian?

Ask Christ. No human gets to make that definition.

[johnny]

Flyonthewall

I have heard Johnny's arguments, but they do not hold water unless he(meaning he controls what the definition is) defines what "christian" is.

A Christian is a disciple (Acts 11:26), a disciple continues in Jesus' word (John 8:31). Jesus' disciple believed "there is one God: and there is none other but he (Mark 12:32). See below.

• Acts.11 ([26] And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.)
  
• -
  
• John.8 ([31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; )
  
• -
  
• Mark.12 ([29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: [32] And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: )
  

His disciple, Ignatius of Antioch, continued in Jesus' word. Ignatius was ordained by the apostle Peter. Ignatius wrote "there is one God, who has manifest himself by Jesus Christ" and wrote "God existing in flesh", see below.

• Ignatius of Antioch "Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . . . [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him" (Letter to the Magnesians 6â??8 [A.D. 110])
  
• -
  
• Ignatius of Antioch "There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Ephesians,7(A.D.110),in ANF,I:52)
  

[Hannah Rebekah]

What is the definition of Christian? (and who makes up the definition)

What are the requirements for being a Christian?

According to the Bible (the only true authority according to traditional Christians) it proves or should to them beyond a shadow of a doubt by the Exegesis (Argumentation Proofs in the Bible) that LDS Christians are true Christians but they even deny that part of what they claim to be their authority. Using Strong's Concordance and a study of the word Christian in the Greek scriptures this is proof that LDS Christians are true Christians:

Biblical:

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/...RK554.htm#S5546

Christianos

Christos; a Christian, i.e. FOLLOWER OF CHRIST:--Christian

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/STRGRK55.htm#S5546

Acts 26:28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B44C026.htm#V28

1 Pe 4:16 Yet if [any man suffer] as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B60C004.htm#V16

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

http://www.sacrednamebible.com/kjvstrongs/B44C011.htm#V26

[johnny]

Hannah Rebekah

Christos; a Christian, i.e. FOLLOWER OF CHRIST:--Christian

If Mormon's are followers of Christ, why don't the follow the teachings of Christ?

Christ taught "one God" (Mark 12:32), Christ did not teach "three Gods" like Joseph Smith.

[Billy]

According to the Bible (the only true authority according to traditional Christians) it proves or should to them beyond a shadow of a doubt by the Exegesis (Argumentation Proofs in the Bible) that LDS Christians are true Christians but they even deny that part of what they claim to be their authority. Using Strong's Concordance and a study of the word Christian in the Greek scriptures this is proof that LDS Christians are true Christians:

I did not understand what you wrote, can you rephrase it for me?

Definition of a Christian?

Who can be called a Christian?

Did you find that priesthood information yet (not just keys of the kingdom quote)?

[Hannah Rebekah]

Yet...the favorite title of God's true disciples that he used was Saints, a word search shows the many times the holy scriptures in the New Testament use this title. So not only are the LDS Christians because we believe and follow Christ but we are known by him and called 'SAINTS':

1.

Col. 1: 2, 4, 12, 26

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

• • •

4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,

• • •

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

• • •

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

2.

Eph. 1: 1, 15, 18

1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

• • •

15 Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints,

• • •

18 The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,

3.

Acts 9: 13, 32, 41

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

• • •

32

[jonzlaw]

The men who translated the Bible . . .

Who were these men?

Also, in what I hope is a somewhat related area, can you tell me why the LDS church uses the King James version of the Bible? It would seem that this version has been messed with at least as much, if not more, than any.

[johnny]

Hannah Rebekah

So not only are the LDS Christians because we believe and follow Christ but we are known by him and call 'SAINTS':

Saints "keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus" (Rev 14:12).

If Mormon's are saints, why do they add to the commandments of God?

For example, Mormon's add the commandment of eternal marriage?

[Log]

Hannah Rebekah

If Mormon's are followers of Christ, why don't the follow the teachings of Christ?

Christ taught "one God" (Mark 12:32), Christ did not teach "three Gods" like Joseph Smith.

Christ did not teach Trinity.

[Flyonthewall]

Flyonthewall

A Christian is a disciple (Acts 11:26), a disciple continues in Jesus' word (John 8:31). Jesus' disciple believed "there is one God: and there is none other but he (Mark 12:32). See below.

• Acts.11 ([26] And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.)
  
• -
  
• John.8 ([31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; )
  
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• Mark.12 ([29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: [32] And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he: )
  

His disciple, Ignatius of Antioch, continued in Jesus' word. Ignatius was ordained by the apostle Peter. Ignatius wrote "there is one God, who has manifest himself by Jesus Christ" and wrote "God existing in flesh", see below.

• Ignatius of Antioch "Jesus Christ . . . was with the Father before the beginning of time, and in the end was revealed. . . . Jesus Christ . . . came forth from one Father and is with and has gone to one [Father]. . . . [T]here is one God, who has manifested himself by Jesus Christ his Son, who is his eternal Word, not proceeding forth from silence, and who in all things pleased him that sent him" (Letter to the Magnesians 6â??8 [A.D. 110])
  
• -
  
• Ignatius of Antioch "There is one Physician who is possessed both of flesh and spirit; both made and not made; God existing in flesh; true life in death; both of Mary and of God; first possible and then impossible, even Jesus Christ our Lord." (Ephesians,7(A.D.110),in ANF,I:52)
  

Jesus Himself told us that there is more than one God. If you consider Jesus as God, He told Mary that He needed to go to His God, so Jesus is one God, and His Father is God #2(or vice versa). Jesus preached being "one" with Him as He is "one" with the Father. His Apostles were "one" with Christ, but you don't say there was one apostle, but twelve. They were "one" in purpose, of "one" accord. I will take the word of Jesus before I take the writings of Ignatius.

I stated this once before but do not recall a response to it, If God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct beings, and they are individually fully God apart from the others, then one must make up a new definition to make them "one" God, instead of 3. This is what occured, you say they are three, but not three. Make up your mind without making up definitions to fill gaps that you don't understand, and then trying to tell everyone else that "that's just the way it is". If you don't know then say you don't know.

[Hannah Rebekah]

I did not understand what you wrote, can you rephrase it for me?

Definition of a Christian?

Who can be called a Christian?

Did you find that priesthood information yet (not just keys of the kingdom quote)?

Have you never used Strong's Concordance to go back to the original Hebrew or Greek words to flush oiut the true meaning of the words used in the Bible? Follow my links above and you will get an idea of what this tool is all about. All Bible scholars use it...Christian and LDS Christians alike. The Bible as I pointed out defines who is a Christian and you should not question it...it is your authority is it not?

Those who can be called a Christians are 'followers of Christ'

For the Priesthood information look under my post of those scriptures on the 27 points of the true Church and this, the true order of Baptism done with proper authority:

Is Baptism Essential for Salvation?

by Scott and Sheri Gordon

Typically when people talk about works and salvation there is confusion about terms. There are "good works" such as helping a neighbor, which most denominations support; then there are ordinances which some denominations call "sacraments" such as baptism, and marriage. Dr. Roger Keller, professor of religion at Brigham Young University states, "We are a sacramental church and center much of our worship around our sacraments."1

The practice of requiring baptism in our church sometimes separates us from other denominations. There are some who argue we are not true followers of Jesus because we don't follow the philosophy that we need only believe in Christ, or that we need only recite the "Sinners Prayer," but that we also preach baptism--a work. But, does preaching that baptism is essential make us non-Christian? Does it deny the doctrine of salvation by grace?

To answer this question we can turn to the book of Acts in the New Testament. We look at Acts because it shows the administrative affairs of the church established by Christ, and the development of the understanding of doctrine. In other words, it gives a good description of how things were done after Jesus was not there.

When we first read in Acts 2 we come across verse 21 which seems to give all of the requirements that one needs to be saved.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.2

But then, when the people respond the teachings and ask what they should actually do they are taught to repent and be baptized.

Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.3

Next we read in chapter eight about the ministry of Philip.

Then Philip went down to the city of Samaria, and preached Christ unto them. And the people with one accord gave heed unto those things which Philip spake, hearing and seeing the miracles which he did.4

What did they do as they "gave heed" to Philip? According to verse 12, they were baptized.

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.5

Then there was a Simon the sorcerer who was a very influential man. When he decided to believe, he too was baptized.

Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.6

Philip went on in his journey and met a man from Ethiopia:

And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to a worship,7

Once he believed he was baptized:

And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.8

When we think of the story of the conversion of Paul, we think of Saul seeing the vision, changing his name to Paul and becoming an apostle of the Lord. But sometimes it is missed that seeing the vision wasn't all that happened. As soon as he was able to see, he was baptized.

And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.

And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.9

Peter has a famous vision where he is instructed to eat with Cornelius the Gentile. After they receive the Holy Ghost he commands them to be baptized. It isn't enough that they could be baptized, but he commands it.

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.10

Lydia attended to the things spoken of by Paul, and she was baptized.

And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.11

The Jailer of Paul and Silas let them out and then asked what he should do to be saved. Once again, as in Acts Chapter two he was told to believe. But in the same hour he was baptized.

Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.12

Paul taught in Corinth, and they were baptized.

And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were baptized.13

The next scripture is really interesting as we have a group of believers that had already been baptized, but they were re-baptized.

And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.14

Then in Acts 22, Paul recounts his conversion and baptism.

For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.15

We can look at all of the scriptures in the Book of Acts where individuals accepted Christ and in every case it resulted in baptism. Even in those instances where it says that one must believe to be saved, the result is still baptism. This should be our model.

Verse Result

Acts 2: 37-38, 41 Baptism--what shall we do?

Acts 8:12 Baptism--People of Samaria

Acts 8:13 Baptism--Simon of Samaria

Acts 8: 36-38 Baptism--Eunuch of Ethiopia

Acts 9:18 Baptism--Saul/Paul

Acts 10:47-48 Baptism--Cornelius baptism commanded

Acts 16:14-15 Baptism--Lydia

Acts 18:8 Baptism--Corinthians

Acts 16:30-33 Baptism--Jailer

Acts 19:5 Baptism--Re-baptism

Acts 22:16 Baptism--Paul teaching

Baptism for Salvation

When we consider the scriptures we find that baptism occurs in every instance that individuals accept Christ. Never do the scriptures teach that we shouldn't be baptized. There are those who seem to argue that we don't need it. For them Acts 2:37-38 could be altered to read:

Men and brethren, what shall we do? Then Peter said unto them...you accepted Jesus--so you're done! You don't need to repent or be baptized because those are works and works aren't necessary.

We have a clear model from the scriptures. We can continue to ask why we need baptism, but the question of should we be baptized has already been answered.

Is baptism essential for salvation? Are those who aren't baptized damned? The answer to those questions may remain hotly debated, but the answer is irrelevant. Those who spend time arguing about this seem to have forgotten they aren't the Judge and their time spent arguing won't change it. Jesus Christ is the author of salvation. He is the judge. It is up to Him to save whom he will. In other words, he makes the decisions, not us. All we can do is to trust him. We can do this by following the scriptures and being baptized. The rest is up to Him.

Endnotes

1 Roger R. Keller, "The Grace of Apologetics," 2003 FAIR Conference (Orem, Utah: August 8, 2003).

2 Acts 2:21.

3 Acts 2:37-38, 41.

4 Acts 8:5-6.

5 Acts 8:12.

6 Acts 8:13.

7 Acts 8:27.

8 Acts 8:36-38.

9 Acts 9:17-18.

10 Acts 10:47-48.

11 Acts 16:14-15.

12 Acts 16: 29-33.

13 Acts 18:8.

14 Acts 19:1-5.

15 Acts 22:15-16.

[MatthewG]

Hannah Rebekah

If Mormon's are followers of Christ, why don't the follow the teachings of Christ?

Christ taught "one God" (Mark 12:32), Christ did not teach "three Gods" like Joseph Smith.

Christ taught many things you don't understand, and we follow the teachings of Christ, we just don't follow your interpretations of scriptures.

[Hoops22]

we follow the teachings of Christ

per your interpretation

[MatthewG]

per your interpretation

As do you and your fellow protestants.