Why Do Christians Say Mormons Are Not Christian?

[nathansoz]

Can anyone explain to me differences between Protastants and LDS?

[Hoops22]

As do you and your fellow protestants.

Correct.And...we follow the teachings of Christ,

Can anyone explain to me differences between Protastants and LDS?

Yeah, we're right and they're wrong.

[nathansoz]

Yeah, we're right and they're wrong.

I don't really consider that an answer. If you have an opinion support it, but don't make a blanket statement.

[MatthewG]

Can anyone explain to me differences between Protastants and LDS?

Protestants, are those organizations that have broken off of the Catholic church (Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc), and protest the belief that our only way to God is through the mother Catholic Church and the Pope. As LDS believe we're a restored organization, one God himself restored through the prophet Joseph Smith, we don't see our selves as part of the "protestant" movement as we didn't break off any group. Maybe someone else can explain it better.

[Billy]

Those who can be called a Christians are 'followers of Christ'

So anyone who calls himself a follower of Christ is a Christian.

So you would include in this list; Moonies, Branch Dividians, Jim Jones's followers, and the FLDS?

For the Priesthood information look under my post of those scriptures on the 27 points of the true Church and this, the true order of Baptism done with proper authority:

I looked but could not find where it states that the Apostles had the Aaronic or Melchezidek priesthood, could you give me that reference?

[jonzlaw]

No I don't in fact. But that isn't the topic of this thread. I believe that the LDS Church is the true Church of our Lord and Savior on this Earth. The Church of Jesus Christ. It was restored, by GOD, through a human man and Prophet.

I know you folks are probably yawning already, but, really, the LDS church seems to me to be more "man made" than any. It starts with a man who said he got it straight from God/Jesus, but doesn't that hold true for any of the men that have altered or changed the Bible via translation or otherwise? Also, the LDS church is sort of set up to change doctrine whenever it becomes necessary, and instead of just saying they've changed it, they say it was changed after further revelation - to some man - from God/Jesus. THe "white and delightsome" stuff and the church's position re: polygamy come to mind. The men of the LDS church even select who the guy is going to be that receives said revelation. No disrespect, and being fully aware that at some point this all boils down to faith, but this organization sure seems man-made to me. At least no less so than any other church out there.

[MatthewG]

Correct.And...we follow the teachings of Christ,Yeah, we're right and they're wrong.

And we go back around in a circle, as you follow the teachings of Christ as you interpret them. As I have already said.

[nathansoz]

Protestants, are those organizations that have broken off of the Catholic church (Baptists, Lutherans, Methodists, etc), and protest the belief that our only way to God is through the mother Catholic Church and the Pope. As LDS believe we're a restored organization, one God himself restored through the prophet Joseph Smith, we don't see our selves as part of the "protestant" movement as we didn't break off any group. Maybe someone else can explain it better.

Sorry, I could be more clear. I know the protestant history, being one myself and from history class. I would like to know about the differences in beliefs and why everyone makes a big deal about it when our relationship with christ should be our utmost priority (not debating doctrine).

[MatthewG]

So anyone who calls himself a follower of Christ is a Christian.

So you would include in this list; Moonies, Branch Dividians, Jim Jones's followers, and the FLDS?

I looked but could not find where it states that the Apostles had the Aaronic or Melchezidek priesthood, could you give me that reference?

I have never said the FLDS Church isn't Christian, I have said they aren't LDS.

[MatthewG]

Sorry, I could be more clear. I know the protestant history, being one myself and from history class. I would like to know about the differences in beliefs and why everyone makes a big deal about it when our relationship with christ should be our utmost priority (not debating doctrine).

The differences in beliefs are large and it is why everyone makes a big deal out of it, mostly by Evangelicas/protestants. You are correct, our priority should be our relationship with Christ. But when you have millions of people claiming your a satan worshiping cult, one tends to get distracted sometimes.

[Hoops22]

I don't really consider that an answer. If you have an opinion support it, but don't make a blanket statement.

I was joking

[Billy]

I have never said the FLDS Church isn't Christian, I have said they aren't LDS.

Is there a point that you can cross by what you believe and do that puts you outside the realm of Christianity, even if you still call yourself a Christian? Or are all people Christian who call themselves Christian?

[Hoops22]

And we go back around in a circle, as you follow the teachings of Christ as you interpret them. As I have already said.

Yep. So let's deal with the evidence and not emotionalism.

[nathansoz]

The differences in beliefs are large and it is why everyone makes a big deal out of it, mostly by Evangelicas/protestants. You are correct, our priority should be our relationship with Christ. But when you have millions of people claiming your a satan worshiping cult, one tends to get distracted sometimes.

I can see why you would say that. In a way it saddens me. I have a lot of LDS friends and they are some of the nicest, down to earth, and Christ centered people I know. I wish there was a way that people could see thought the differences and see what is in common.

[Flyonthewall]

Is there a point that you can cross by what you believe and do that puts you outside the realm of Christianity, even if you still call yourself a Christian? Or are all people Christian who call themselves Christian?

When a group claims that they do not follow Christ, that puts them outside of the realm of christianity. If anyone claims Christ as the son of God and redeemer of mankind, and follows His teachings in the manner which they understand them, they are christian.

[MatthewG]

I can see why you would say that. In a way it saddens me. I have a lot of LDS friends and they are some of the nicest, down to earth, and Christ centered people I know. I wish there was a way that people could see thought the differences and see what is in common.

I am so pleased to hear you say that. Maybe you can start a movement.

Is there a point that you can cross by what you believe and do that puts you outside the realm of Christianity, even if you still call yourself a Christian? Or are all people Christian who call themselves Christian?

Personally, I would never DARE to define who is and who isn't a follower of Christ, nor should anyone including YOU. Why don't you just try and follow his example, and love people. Who are you to judge if they are a follower of Christ or not?

Yep. So let's deal with the evidence and not emotionalism.

Whose evidence and by whose definitions? Only Christ decides who is a Christian, certainly not me, and definitely not you.

[Billy]

When a group claims that they do not follow Christ, that puts them outside of the realm of christianity. If anyone claims Christ as the son of God and redeemer of mankind, and follows His teachings in the manner which they understand them, they are christian.

Even if that group started to do crazy stuff like animal sacrifices, as long as they called themselves Christian, they are Christian, is that correct?

[MatthewG]

When a group claims that they do not follow Christ, that puts them outside of the realm of christianity. If anyone claims Christ as the son of God and redeemer of mankind, and follows His teachings in the manner which they understand them, they are christian.

Exactly

Even if that group started to do crazy stuff like animal sacrifices, as long as they called themselves Christian, they are Christian, is that correct?

Like who?

[soren]

Jesus Himself told us that there is more than one God. If you consider Jesus as God, He told Mary that He needed to go to His God, so Jesus is one God, and His Father is God #2(or vice versa).

That Jesus acknowledges and worships the Father as his Gods follows as a logical consequence if the Trinity and Incarnantion. If Jesus became fully man, and it is human nature to woorship God, then Jesus, as man would worship God. The human worship of Christ is necessarily directed to the Father, as it would make no sense for him to worship himself.

Jesus preached being "one" with Him as He is "one" with the Father. His Apostles were "one" with Christ, but you don't say there was one apostle, but twelve. They were "one" in purpose, of "one" accord. I will take the word of Jesus before I take the writings of Ignatius.

This argument assumes that a likeness of man to God implies a likeness of God to man, but it need not work that way. In Catholic theology, the basic pattern for all human life and existence is the inner life of God in the Trinity. God's glory resides in the fact that his nature and happiness are shared in a loving communion of persons. God created the world and human beings so that more persons could share in that joy. For this reason, all human associations, families, political bodies, and the Church itself, are signs and expressions of that Trinitarian life and have their sanctity by virtue of the ways in which they reflect the Trinity. Because the Trinity is the archetype of all parsonal associations, it is appropriate for Jesus to want men to be one "as" he and the Father are. The key here is that "as" is express the relation of an individual to its archetype rather than a relation of two equivalents.

This particular point has been the topic of a wide range of Catholic publications in recent years, which you would know if you had ever bothered to study the doctrine that you believe yourself capable of refuting. One book entitled "First Comes Love: Finding Your Family in the Church and in the Trinity" by Scott Hahn is a book-long Trinitarian mediation on the very verse that you have cited as you proof-text. Clearly, if you are ever to achieve a cogent argument against our beliefs, you will need to do some homework.

I stated this once before but do not recall a response to it, If God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit are three distinct beings,

They are distinct as persons, not as beings.

and they are individually fully God apart from the others,

They are God inseparably from one another, and none of them exists as God or even has personal identity except in reference to the the other two.

then one must make up a new definition to make them "one" God, instead of 3.

Indeed, one would have to if the above premises were a correct description of Trintiarianism. But alas, they reflect only LDS doctrine, which accordingly invents a new meaning for "one' God. It is your theology, not ours, that is criticized by the logic above.

This is what occured, you say they are three, but not three. Make up your mind without making up definitions to fill gaps that you don't understand, and then trying to tell everyone else that "that's just the way it is". If you don't know then say you don't know.

The most telltale sign that a person does not know anything about the Trinity is when they treat it as a math problem. There is absolutely no question of mathematical contradiction in the Trinity, which claims one nature in three persons. If one looks at that statement and does not ascribe any particular meaning to "nature" or "person," they tend to drop out of one's perception so that only the numbers one and three remains, which we notice do not equal each other. If one considers the difference between nature and person, however, the problems appears not as a mathematical contradiction but as an existential quandary, and it is in this area where you might be able to make meaningful objection if you would take the time to learn something about these concepts before ramming bible verse down Johnny's throat which, I predict, he will easily be able to interpret in his response.

[Flyonthewall]

Even if that group started to do crazy stuff like animal sacrifices, as long as they called themselves Christian, they are Christian, is that correct?

Me personally, I say yes. They would be a different sect of christianity, one that I don't agree with, but christian none the less.

There is a christian sect that proves/demonstrates/excersises/measures their faith by handling rattle snakes. I don't know how they get that as the measure of their faith(yes, I know about the poisonous serpents will not harm them passage), but they claim to be christian, and I will not tell them otherwise.

[Hannah Rebekah]

Hannah Rebekah

If Mormon's are followers of Christ, why don't the follow the teachings of Christ?

Christ taught "one God" (Mark 12:32), Christ did not teach "three Gods" like Joseph Smith.

Johnny,

From what I can tell about Modern traditional Christians when they explain about 'one God' they describe him as one Being who has three faces that he changes for the different roles he performs. That is called Modalism and if you would research this you would find that this is the very 'heretical' view that brought about the Nicene Creed...yet now Modern traditional Christians have even turned away from understanding their own Nicene Creed and are back to believing Modalism. There are other parts of the Nicene Creed that the LDS Christians do not believe but we are not 'heretical' in our understanding of what 'one God' means.

Mark 12: 32

And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:

Now...consider these:

1 Tim. 2: 5

For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

1 Cor. 8: 6

But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Mark 1: 24

Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art, the Holy One of God.

Luke 4: 34

Saying, Let us alone; what have we to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? art thou come to destroy us? I know thee who thou art; the Holy One of God.

This a very good site that explains about the Trinity and comes the closest to what the LDS point of view is on the Trinity. It would serve you well to follow this conversation (not long) to get a feel for what I'm talking about and how we worship 'one God' yet three separate beings. The Godhead is one in unity.

http://heartissuesforlds.wordpress.com/200...trinitarianism/

Please follow the links to get a better understanding.

On this site poster #6 had this to say:

6 John C.

I suppose what I am getting at is that most of the Evangelicals I have talked with are modalists. For that matter, I don’t think any of them care that they are, in that sense, heretics. If social trinitarianism is a better fit for what they believe, why do they find LDS beliefs about God disturbing?

[Hannah Rebekah]

Even if that group started to do crazy stuff like animal sacrifices, as long as they called themselves Christian, they are Christian, is that correct?

Former US President Jimmy Carter, a prominent Southern Baptist, recently told reporters that he not only considers Mormons to be Christian, but also believes his church is becoming too much like "Pharisees" in determining who is acceptable: "When questioned by the Deseret News about the SBC's characterization of Mormons as non-Christians, Carter said his church's leadership has become 'narrow in their definition of what is a proper Christian or certainly even a proper Baptist.'" Carter is also quoted as saying, "I think that the worst thing that we can do, among the worst things we can do, as believers in Christ, is to spend our time condemning others, who profess faith in Christ."-

[Hoops22]

Former US President Jimmy Carter,

You can have him.

[Hannah Rebekah]

You can have him.

Is that because of his politics or because he finally left your Church?

[Hoops22]

Is that because of his politics or because he finally left your Church?

It's because I'm joking. Perhaps the worst president ever, but I have no desire for him to leave a non-lds christian church for lds.