Masonic Distress Call

[Lamanite]

Is there anyone that can give me a good reason why so many Mormon's or you personally oppose the idea that Joseph was speaking the Masonic Distress Call when he was shot?

[California]

Is there anyone that can give me a good reason why so many Mormon's or you personally oppose the idea that Joseph was speaking the Masonic Distress Call when he was shot?

I do, because I see the Masonic Distress Call about 10 times in each action flick I watch. They're usually holding a gun, but it's the same thing.

[Lamanite]

I do, because I see the Masonic Distress Call about 10 times in each action flick I watch. They're usually holding a gun, but it's the same thing.

I'm not sure I understand. Your argument is that because it is in action movies today, Joseph wasn't....oh nevermind

[California]

I'm not sure I understand. Your argument is that because it is in action movies today, Joseph wasn't....oh nevermind

Well, there must be something I don't understand here. I'll do some research and get back to you.

He never finished the call.

[Bill Hamblin]

1 Kings 3:7
And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
1 Kings 3:6-8 (in Context) 1 Kings 3 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 8:28
Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:
1 Kings 8:27-29 (in Context) 1 Kings 8 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 17:20
And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
1 Kings 17:19-21 (in Context) 1 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 17:21
And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1 Kings 17:20-22 (in Context) 1 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)

1 Chronicles 21:17
And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.
1 Chronicles 21:16-18 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 21 (Whole Chapter)

2 Chronicles 6:19
Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee:
2 Chronicles 6:18-20 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 6 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 7:1
O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
Psalm 7:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 7:3
O LORD my God, If I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
Psalm 7:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Psalm 13:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 13 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 30:2
O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.
Psalm 30:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 30 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 30:12
To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.
Psalm 30:11-12 (in Context) Psalm 30 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 35:24
Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me.
Psalm 35:23-25 (in Context) Psalm 35 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 38:15
For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God.
Psalm 38:14-16 (in Context) Psalm 38 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 40:5
Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Psalm 40:4-6 (in Context) Psalm 40 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 86:12
I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
Psalm 86:11-13 (in Context) Psalm 86 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 104:1
Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psalm 104:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 104 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 109:26
Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy:
Psalm 109:25-27 (in Context) Psalm 109 (Whole Chapter)

Jonah 2:6
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Jonah 2:5-7 (in Context) Jonah 2 (Whole Chapter)

Habakkuk 1:12
Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Habakkuk 1:11-13 (in Context) Habakkuk 1 (Whole Chapter)

[Lamanite]

1 Kings 3:7
And now, O LORD my God, thou hast made thy servant king instead of David my father: and I am but a little child: I know not how to go out or come in.
1 Kings 3:6-8 (in Context) 1 Kings 3 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 8:28
Yet have thou respect unto the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and to the prayer, which thy servant prayeth before thee to day:
1 Kings 8:27-29 (in Context) 1 Kings 8 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 17:20
And he cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, hast thou also brought evil upon the widow with whom I sojourn, by slaying her son?
1 Kings 17:19-21 (in Context) 1 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)

1 Kings 17:21
And he stretched himself upon the child three times, and cried unto the LORD, and said, O LORD my God, I pray thee, let this child's soul come into him again.
1 Kings 17:20-22 (in Context) 1 Kings 17 (Whole Chapter)

1 Chronicles 21:17
And David said unto God, Is it not I that commanded the people to be numbered? even I it is that have sinned and done evil indeed; but as for these sheep, what have they done? let thine hand, I pray thee, O LORD my God, be on me, and on my father's house; but not on thy people, that they should be plagued.
1 Chronicles 21:16-18 (in Context) 1 Chronicles 21 (Whole Chapter)

2 Chronicles 6:19
Have respect therefore to the prayer of thy servant, and to his supplication, O LORD my God, to hearken unto the cry and the prayer which thy servant prayeth before thee:
2 Chronicles 6:18-20 (in Context) 2 Chronicles 6 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 7:1
O LORD my God, in thee do I put my trust: save me from all them that persecute me, and deliver me:
Psalm 7:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 7:3
O LORD my God, If I have done this; if there be iniquity in my hands;
Psalm 7:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 7 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 13:3
Consider and hear me, O LORD my God: lighten mine eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death;
Psalm 13:2-4 (in Context) Psalm 13 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 30:2
O LORD my God, I cried unto thee, and thou hast healed me.
Psalm 30:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 30 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 30:12
To the end that my glory may sing praise to thee, and not be silent. O LORD my God, I will give thanks unto thee for ever.
Psalm 30:11-12 (in Context) Psalm 30 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 35:24
Judge me, O LORD my God, according to thy righteousness; and let them not rejoice over me.
Psalm 35:23-25 (in Context) Psalm 35 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 38:15
For in thee, O LORD, do I hope: thou wilt hear, O Lord my God.
Psalm 38:14-16 (in Context) Psalm 38 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 40:5
Many, O LORD my God, are thy wonderful works which thou hast done, and thy thoughts which are to us-ward: they cannot be reckoned up in order unto thee: if I would declare and speak of them, they are more than can be numbered.
Psalm 40:4-6 (in Context) Psalm 40 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 86:12
I will praise thee, O Lord my God, with all my heart: and I will glorify thy name for evermore.
Psalm 86:11-13 (in Context) Psalm 86 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 104:1
Bless the LORD, O my soul. O LORD my God, thou art very great; thou art clothed with honour and majesty.
Psalm 104:1-3 (in Context) Psalm 104 (Whole Chapter)

Psalm 109:26
Help me, O LORD my God: O save me according to thy mercy:
Psalm 109:25-27 (in Context) Psalm 109 (Whole Chapter)

Jonah 2:6
I went down to the bottoms of the mountains; the earth with her bars was about me for ever: yet hast thou brought up my life from corruption, O LORD my God.
Jonah 2:5-7 (in Context) Jonah 2 (Whole Chapter)

Habakkuk 1:12
Art thou not from everlasting, O LORD my God, mine Holy One? we shall not die. O LORD, thou hast ordained them for judgment; and, O mighty God, thou hast established them for correction.
Habakkuk 1:11-13 (in Context) Habakkuk 1 (Whole Chapter)

Yeah...I get it. What I'm wondering is why the aversion to the plausibility of the Distress call, that I get from a lot of Mormons. I think it's very possible it was a prayer. However, I think it's more probable given his status as a 32degree Mason and the statements of BY and JT concerning the event that he was verbalizing the Masonic distress call.

[California]

1 Kings 3:7
And now, O LORD my God, ETC

you could argue that he never finished the call, and that it was a such a recurrent scripture that Joseph probably used it in prayer. The argument can be made that Joseph never prayed standing, but it was a crisis situation. I thought there was a hand signal he also gave, which is what I was referring to in my comment about actions movies, and THAT could easily have been mistaken.

[The_Monk]

I don't have any problem with the distress call, think it likely even, but I think most LDS are presentist and don't know much about JS vis-avis Masonry.

That said, there's no way to prove it either way.

[cinepro]

Is there anyone that can give me a good reason why so many Mormon's or you personally oppose the idea that Joseph was speaking the Masonic Distress Call when he was shot?

If Joseph Smith was a Mason (and he was), why would it be surprising or controversial for him to give a Masonic distress call?

[Lamanite]

I don't have any problem with the distress call, think it likely even, but I think most LDS are presentist and don't know much about JS vis-avis Masonry.

That said, there's no way to prove it either way.

That's kind of how I am. It just seemed to me that last time this topic came up there was a lot of emotion behind the assertion that IT WAS NOT MASONIC! Just wondering why.

There seem to be no Mormons who feel the way I've described. Perhaps I've mis read or mis interpreted comments by Mormons regarding this issue.

[LifeOnaPlate]

Who said Joseph never prayed standing? I'm about 99% certain he did.

Either way, I don't think we'll ultimately know for certain. Not enough data. Either way, it's a nice final word.

[Bill Hamblin]

If Joseph Smith was a Mason (and he was), why would it be surprising or controversial for him to give a Masonic distress call?

If Joseph Smith was a Christian (and he was), why would it be surprising or controversial for him to give a prayer to God?

We need to realize, that, despite the methodologies frequently employed by anti-Mormons, no one--no one--knows what was in Joseph's mind at the moment of his death.

If he had said:"O Lord, my God, is there no help for the Widow's Son," then we could conclude that he was giving the Masonic distress call. Even if he had said "O Lord, my God, is there no ..." I think the case would be fairly conclusive. But he didn't say that. He said, "O Lord, my God." It is a traditional biblical prayer as well as the beginning of the Masonic call (which itself is based, obviously, on the traditional biblical prayer). There is no way to know which was in Joseph's mind, and it is pointless to speculate beyond that fact.

At any rate, if it were, in fact, the distress call I would not be in the least distressed.

[jerryp48]

I've never had a problem with. It might have been both. Why not kill to birds with one stone.

Since it was first reported in a Mormon paper, I don't think his contemporaries had a problem with it either.

[Alf O'Mega]

I don't see how the conclusion can be escaped. The earliest report I am aware of is the 15 July 1844 issue of Times and Seasons, which was edited by John Taylor, an eyewitness to the assassination. The phrase Joseph spoke is exactly the same as the beginning of the masonic distress call. Also, he was known to make somewhat naive appeals to third parties, hoping that they would recognize the injustice of his (or his people's) situation and come to the rescue, as in General Joseph Smith's Appeal to the Green Mountain Boys. His final instinct was to appeal to the ties of confraternity among whatever masons may have been present.

[Flyonthewall]

I don't see how the conclusion can be escaped. The earliest report I am aware of is the 15 July 1844 issue of Times and Seasons, which was edited by John Taylor, an eyewitness to the assassination. The phrase Joseph spoke is exactly the same as the beginning of the masonic distress call. Also, he was known to make somewhat naive appeals to third parties, hoping that they would recognize the injustice of his (or his people's) situation and come to the rescue, as in General Joseph Smith's Appeal to the Green Mountain Boys. His final instinct was to appeal to the ties of confraternity among whatever masons may have been present.

Or....it could be that he was crying out to his G_d.

If someone is in a situation of stress, and they say "Our Father who art in heaven!", were they reciting the Lord's prayer? or was it just an exclaimaition invoking the help of their G_d? 6 to 1, half-dozen to the other, either way they are invoking aid from their G_d.

I never heard of the Masonic distress call until recently, but it changes nothing.

[Helorum]

given his status as a 32degree Mason

Joseph Smith was NOT a 32nd degree Mason.

[LifeOnaPlate]

I don't see how the conclusion can be escaped. The earliest report I am aware of is the 15 July 1844 issue of Times and Seasons, which was edited by John Taylor, an eyewitness to the assassination. The phrase Joseph spoke is exactly the same as the beginning of the masonic distress call. Also, he was known to make somewhat naive appeals to third parties, hoping that they would recognize the injustice of his (or his people's) situation and come to the rescue, as in General Joseph Smith's Appeal to the Green Mountain Boys. His final instinct was to appeal to the ties of confraternity among whatever masons may have been present.

Right. Also, it could have been addressed to God. Again, it is inconclusive. Either way, good.

[Paul Ray]

Is there anyone that can give me a good reason why so many Mormon's or you personally oppose the idea that Joseph was speaking the Masonic Distress Call when he was shot?

Are you personally opposed to the idea that what some people call the "Masonic Distress Call" can also be called an invocation to summon the powers of the Priesthood?

In other words, are you personally opposed that Masonic rituals are a corrupt, apostate form of true Priesthood rituals?

If not, I think it might do you some good to mention that when you refer to "Masonic Distress Call", so that some people might get the idea of what you are actually referring to.

... and if you are, you don't have to tell anybody.

[Lamanite]

Are you personally opposed to the idea that what some people call the "Masonic Distress Call" can also be called an invocation to summon the powers of the Priesthood?

In other words, are you personally opposed that Masonic rituals are a corrupt, apostate form of true Priesthood rituals?

If not, I think it might do you some good to mention that when you refer to "Masonic Distress Call", so that some people might get the idea of what you are actually referring to.

... and if you are, you don't have to tell anybody.

I think the erroneous albeit quaint and romantic idea that the masonic rituals were a "corrupt" form of the priesthood has run it's course.

I think both are possible. I think one option is likely. I think there is room for all of us in the church.

[facie ad faciem]

Joseph Smith was NOT a 32nd degree Mason.

Is it sacrilegious of me that I'm picturing Joseph Smith driving a mini car and wearing a fez?

[Bill Hamblin]

I don't see how the conclusion can be escaped. The earliest report I am aware of is the 15 July 1844 issue of Times and Seasons, which was edited by John Taylor, an eyewitness to the assassination. The phrase Joseph spoke is exactly the same as the beginning of the masonic distress call. Also, he was known to make somewhat naive appeals to third parties, hoping that they would recognize the injustice of his (or his people's) situation and come to the rescue, as in General Joseph Smith's Appeal to the Green Mountain Boys. His final instinct was to appeal to the ties of confraternity among whatever masons may have been present.

This is another one of those issues where claims about what Joseph was or was not thinking tell us much more about the person making the claim than they tell us about what Joseph was or was not thinking.

[Aquilifer]

I'm all in favor of the Masonic distress call. It's just a further indictment of the character of those Masons in the mob who refused to remember their promises and obligations.

[Paul Ray]

I think the erroneous albeit quaint and romantic idea that the masonic rituals were a "corrupt" form of the priesthood has run it's course.

I think both are possible. I think one option is likely. I think there is room for all of us in the church.

I think there is room for all of us in the church too, including those who think the quaint and romantic idea that the masonic rituals were a "corrupt" form of the priesthood is erroneous and has run it's course.

Welcome home.

[Lamanite]

I think there is room for all of us in the church too, including those who think the quaint and romantic idea that the masonic rituals were a "corrupt" form of the priesthood is erroneous and has run it's course.

Welcome home.

Touche! It really is more painful when you're run through with your own sword. I really am a jacksas sometimes. Smile!

[Paul Ray]

Touche! It really is more painful when you're run through with your own sword. I really am a jacksas sometimes. Smile!

Speaking of swords, I was watching Modern Marvels last night on the History Channel and they were doing a story on sharp things, briefly mentioning that the katana is the sharpest type of metal sword ever made.

It can cut through a man with one blow and never needs to be sharpened.

It's made from a mixture of steel and clay.

A plasma laser is even sharper. I saw one that can cut through about 3 inches of steel.

I suppose a plasma laser would be very useful in a light sabre.