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Christ Was A Man And Became A God?


JohnBWalt

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The MAN Jesus did become a God. Because he emptied himself of all that was God...

Wrong. Jesus did not become that which he already was. He took upon himself human flesh for the express purpose of redeeming humankind. And the kenosis of Christ had absolutely nothing to do with him ceasing to be God, as your terrible misquote of Philippians alludes.

Paul wrote, "Philippians 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."

The emptying had to do with Jesus' humbling of himself, or divesting himself of the divine right to act as God in all circumstances, whereby he would fulfill the divine mission set before him, which was to pay the sin debt of humanity. At no time, though, did Jesus ever cease to be God. He merely chose to not exercise his godly attributes, and humbled himself as a human being.

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Notice to all...

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm#I

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [2 Pt 1:4] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." [st. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." [st. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." [st. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4]

Vatican II brought this lost teaching back.

Wrong. Jesus did not become that which he already was. He took upon himself human flesh for the express purpose of redeeming humankind. And the kenosis of Christ had absolutely nothing to do with him ceasing to be God, as your terrible misquote of Philippians alludes.

Paul wrote, "Philippians 2:7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men."

The emptying had to do with Jesus' humbling of himself, or divesting himself of the divine right to act as God in all circumstances, whereby he would fulfill the divine mission set before him, which was to pay the sin debt of humanity. At no time, though, did Jesus ever cease to be God. He merely chose to not exercise his godly attributes, and humbled himself as a human being.

Can a God die?

Continue reading.

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Yes earlier i said he "Was" God... Before he came to earth.

Then he Took on the Human Nature... and became able to die. Only then could he descend into the pit and conquer the leviathan. And take his life back up again. Theres the problem Johnny... Gods cant die so unless he emptied himself he would never be able to die and become obedient unto death.

PS. there is one God and its not Christ... its his Father. Christ is the Man the sits between God his father and other men.

This is more fiction. Jesus did not descend to any pit to "conquer the leviathan." And the moment that God cease to be God is the very moment existence ceases to be. And since existence relies upon Jesus to uphold it (Col. 1:17), then there has never been at any point that Jesus ever ceased to be God.

And your blasphemous statement about Jesus not being God once again defies biblical revelation which tells us that he is God, and has always been God.

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This is more fiction. Jesus did not descend to any pit to "conquer the leviathan." And the moment that God cease to be God is the very moment existence ceases to be. And since existence relies upon Jesus to uphold it (Col. 1:17), then there has never been at any point that Jesus ever ceased to be God.

And your blasphemous statement about Jesus not being God once again defies biblical revelation which tells us that he is God, and has always been God.

So you disagree with the Bible then?

Isa. 27: 1

1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Job 41: 1

1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

Ps. 74: 14

14 Thou brakest the heads of leviathan in pieces, and gavest him to be meat to the people inhabiting the wilderness.

Ps. 104: 26

26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

Christ decended into hell (aka the abyss, the pit) and killed the serpent. But in order to do that he had to become 100% Mortal and be able to Die. But being who he was... he burst the bands of death. Kicked down the gates of hell and freed the prisoners.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

How do you interpret John 17? I agree that we will be of one spirit but that still is one in purpose. If we take John 17 at face value then it say that we will be one with Jesus and the Father. Are to become literally one but still distinct,but not separate. Just a big floating mass of stuff.

John 17 is speaking of a union of the distinct members of Christ (1Cor 6:15-17).

I also take John 17 at face value, I believe the Father is in the Son (John 17:21; John 10:30,38):

John.17

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John.10

[30] I and my Father are one.

[38] But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

The HG is a distinct person from the Father.

This is what the Catholic Church teaches (see link below):

http://www.vatican.va/archive/catechism/p122a3p1.htm#I

460 - The Word became flesh to make us "partakers of the divine nature": [2 Pt 1:4] "For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God." [st. Irenaeus, Adv. haeres. 3, 19, 1: PG 7/1, 939] "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God." [st. Athanasius, De inc. 54, 3: PG 25, 192B] "The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods." [st. Thomas Aquinas, Opusc. 57, 1-4]

Mormonism teaches that the Father, the Son, and the HG are "three Gods" ... I don't believe this because this is not what the Bible reveals. I believe in "one God in three persons" (2Cor 5:19).

2Cor 5

[19] To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

Very interesting. So you are having a problem with the Separte part? Is that correct.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Very interesting. So you are having a problem with the Separte part? Is that correct.

I have a problem with the Mormon teaching that the Father and the Son are two seperate Gods. Elohim and Jehovah are NOT two seperate Gods.

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1) I am "Manifest" in my son Johhny. That Does not make me my son.

No one said that Jesus was the same person as the Father.

2) But while he was here on Earth he could not Die if he were a God. So he must have been a Man.

Again, your ignorance of the two natures in the person of Jesus betrays you. Besides, the Son of Man designation also points to Jesus' deity.

3) God the father was manifest through his Son jesus Christ the same way I am manifest through my son.

No, it is not, given that the Father-Son relationship that God and Jesus have is completely unique in comparison to the relationship you have with your son, starting with the fact that both God and Jesus have always existed in an infinitely harmonious relationship, whereas you and your son came into existence through the express creative activity of God and the Son, are disharmonious through the introduction of sin into the world, and are contingent upon God for your existence.

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

I have a problem with the Mormon teaching that the Father and the Son are two seperate Gods. Elohim and Jehovah are NOT two seperate Gods.

Objection noted. I guess there is nothing more I can help you with. Not taht you need help. We just simply interpret the scriptures diffrently. I thought John 17 spelled out the relation to the Father with the Son pretty good. It also spells out how our relationship with the Father and the Son is when it is perfected.

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I don't understand what is so difficult about understanding that an All Powerful Father can make His Childrens gods.

Because it is blasphemy, that's why.

I mean He has all power doesnt He?

Omnipotence has nothing to do with it. Violating God's being and character does.

He has told the believers "Ye are gods" directly in the Bible. He has promised them power, glory, dominion etc. Basically everything He has.

Yet, the allusion to gods has nothing to do with being a true God in the sense that God is the only, true God. And though God promised his heirs many things, He never promised that they would ever being like Him essentially. There are just plainly some things that finite creatures cannot become, starting with a complete change in their being whereby they become infinite beings, which is what God is.

Yet you seem to think God cant keep His promises. What's up with that?

It has nothing to do with us disbelieving God's promises. It has to do with the Mormons foisting things upon God that He never said, and in fact denounced others for believing, when they were deceived by none other than the Devil himself, that they would become like God.

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No, it is not, given that the Father-Son relationship that God and Jesus have is completely unique in comparison to the relationship you have with your son, starting with the fact that both God and Jesus have always existed in an infinitely harmonious relationship, whereas you and your son came into existence through the express creative activity of God and the Son, are disharmonious through the introduction of sin into the world, and are contingent upon God for your existence.

CFR...

According to the Proverbs God Created Christ.

Proverbs 8

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

And who the heck where all these sons of men who where with God before anything was created. :P

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CFR...

According to the Proverbs God Created Christ.

Proverbs 8

22 The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old.

23 I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was.

24 When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water.

25 Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:

26 While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the highest part of the dust of the world.

27 When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass upon the face of the depth:

28 When he established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:

29 When he gave to the sea his decree, that the waters should not pass his commandment: when he appointed the foundations of the earth:

30 Then I was by him, as one brought up with him: and I was daily his delight, rejoicing always before him;

31 Rejoicing in the habitable part of his earth; and my delights were with the sons of men.

And who the heck where all these sons of men who where with God before anything was created. :P

Very interesting indeed. If you cant tell I like the word "interesting". It is a very interesting word. HA.

Zak your quit the bible scholar arent you?

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If jesus where "Set in Cement"... Then this verse makes no sense.

Excuse me, but your comment doesn't make any sense.

Heb. 5: 9

9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Yes, he was human that became perfect. For some reason you keep forgetting just who Jesus was as both a human and as God.

There was something different (ie. "NOT the Same") between the Mortal Christ who died on the Cross and the Immortal Christ who left the Tomb.

More blather. Pay attention Zak. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

Paul D,

So why do you deny it to humans then?

Because humans are not like God's only unique Son.

John is teaching the deification of man here.

John never taught that humans could be deified.

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It makes perfect sense... You think Christ is set in cement and can never change....

He cant be the same forever because... yesterday he had no body... when he was Mortal he did... then he laid that body down and took it back up again... never to be able to die again. So... how can he be the same?

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Because humans are not like God's only unique Son.

Not according to John... pay attention.

1 John 3

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

John never taught that humans could be deified.

So man is never going to become perfect Like Christ is... Talk about Blasphemy.

No, you disagree with the Bible, and your constant ignorance and misquoting of it is evidence.

Thats the oldest cop-out in the book... thats what the Jews said to Justin Marytr all the time.

:P

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It makes perfect sense... You think Christ is set in cement and can never change....

In his essence as God, that is true. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

He cant be the same forever because... yesterday he had no body... when he was Mortal he did... then he laid that body down and took it back up again... never to be able to die again. So... how can he be the same?

So, God is a liar now, eh?

Hear ye, hear ye, the Almighty Zak has just called God a liar, thereby making himself the Almighty.

Zak, it is quite clear that you have no interest in what God has to say, and that you will use whatever amount of foolishness you think is necessary to undermine, distort, or discredit what God does say, all in an effort to promote yourself. Let me just remind you of the stern warning passed along to someone else that traversed the same path that you're currently on, even though I'm sure you will laugh with scorn much in the same manner that he probably did.

Isaiah 14:12 "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13 "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.' 15 "Nevertheless you will be thrust down to Sheol, To the recesses of the pit.

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No, you disagree with the Bible, and your constant ignorance and misquoting of it is evidence.

No he didnt. Yes he did. No he didnt. no you are wrong. No you are wrong. You guys are funny going back and forth. Thanks for the enjoyment. :P

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Not according to John... pay attention.

No, you pay attention. Becoming a son of God, and being like Him, does not mean that we, as creatures, are able to take on exactly the same infinite quality that God has.

So man is never going to become perfect Like Christ is... Talk about Blasphemy.

No, becoming perfect like Christ, as Christ is God, is blasphemy.

Thats the oldest cop-out in the book... thats what the Jews said to Justin Marytr all the time.

It's not a cop-out. It's the truth. Your ignorance of the Bible, and your constant misquoting of it, are indicative of someone who's only interested in butchering it to suit his own ends.

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You and rocmonkey said he is... not me.

Would you care to explain why he lied to King Jehosapath and got him killed?

2 Chr. 18

18 Again he said, Therefore hear the word of the LORD; I saw the LORD sitting upon his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left.

19 And the LORD said, Who shall entice Ahab king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead? And one spake saying after this manner, and another saying after that manner.

20 Then there came out a spirit, and stood before the LORD, and said, I will entice him. And the LORD said unto him, Wherewith?

21 And he said, I will go out, and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And the LORD said, Thou shalt entice him, and thou shalt also prevail: go out, and do even so.

22 Now therefore, behold, the LORD hath aput a lying spirit in the mouth of these thy prophets, and the LORD hath spoken evil against thee.

23 Then Zedekiah the son of Chenaanah came near, and smote Micaiah upon the cheek, and said, Which way went the Spirit of the LORD from me to speak unto thee?

24 And Micaiah said, Behold, thou shalt see on that day when thou shalt go into an inner chamber to hide thyself.

25 Then the king of Israel said, Take ye Micaiah, and carry him back to Amon the governor of the city, and to Joash the king’s son;

26 And say, Thus saith the king, Put this fellow in the prison, and feed him with bread of affliction and with water of affliction, until I return in peace.

27 And Micaiah said, If thou certainly return in peace, then hath not the LORD spoken by me. And he said, Hearken, all ye people.

28 So the king of Israel and Jehoshaphat the king of Judah went up to Ramoth-gilead.

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Excuse me, but your comment doesn't make any sense.

Yes, he was human that became perfect. For some reason you keep forgetting just who Jesus was as both a human and as God.

More blather. Pay attention Zak. Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes and forever.

Because humans are not like God's only unique Son.

John never taught that humans could be deified.

Rev 3:21

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

Help me out what is this verse talking about?

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No, becoming perfect like Christ, as Christ is God, is blasphemy.

Really? Tell that to Paul, John, James, Moses, Noah and Christ himself.

Matt. 5: 48

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Gen. 6: 9

9

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Mola Ram Suda Ram,

Objection noted. I guess there is nothing more I can help you with. Not taht you need help. We just simply interpret the scriptures diffrently. I thought John 17 spelled out the relation to the Father with the Son pretty good. It also spells out how our relationship with the Father and the Son is when it is perfected.

John 17 also spells out that the Father dwelt in the Son, how do you interpret this?

John.17

[21] That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.

John.10

[30] I and my Father are one.

[38] But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.

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