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Satan Transforming Into An Angel Of Light


Cold Steel

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Paul writes: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14) Later, the saints were warned, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal 1:8)

If Satan does have the power to appear as an angel of light, why does he not do so more often? Do you suppose he is under restrictions and, if so, what do you think they are?

We hear occasionally of those who leave the church and establish themselves as ones holding the keys of authority, or declaring themselves as the one who is mighty and strong, and in the Book of Mormon we hear of appearances of false angels. Anyone have any views or experiences?

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Perhaps when we read that Satan can transform into an "angel of light", could it be a metaphor or symbolic? He appears to person A giving him a counterfeit gospel etc etc. Person A then thinks he saw an Angel of light... Or perhaps whenever we are tempted by what we might perceive as something good an in actuality its not, perhaps that was the transformation and we interpret what is bad is good walah an angel of light. Perhaps I had one too many pain pills and I need to go get some sleep...

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Paul writes: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14) Later, the saints were warned, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal 1::P

If Satan does have the power to appear as an angel of light, why does he not do so more often? Do you suppose he is under restrictions and, if so, what do you think they are?

We hear occasionally of those who leave the church and establish themselves as ones holding the keys of authority, or declaring themselves as the one who is mighty and strong, and in the Book of Mormon we hear of appearances of false angels. Anyone have any views or experiences?

In the early centuries of the Christian Church there were many charismatic leaders who led people into the wilderness saying they had talked with an angel, etc. The key to me is two-fold: one, a key to detecting a false angel is what the angel teaches. If it is another gospel than that which the savior taught, it is detectable.

As to why they don't do it more often; I believe as God is "restricted" in a sense by our faith, so also is satan and his followers.

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Now please understand that I'm an EV with the pentecostal leaning and I love and support fully what we believe and stand for. In saying that I think that satan transforms hinself and stand in pulpits all around the world every Sunday. Spewing false doctrine and teaching traditions of men in our churchs. There is more down right foolishness in the pentecostal movement than anywhere else-IMHO

But on the other hand satan would want to try and destroy one of the most sucsesfull movements in church history :P

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Here's photographic proof that Satan can do this:

angeloflightwe6.jpg

Edit: This is from a DVD produced by the LDS Church. They apparently forgot what Joseph Smith taught here:

"There have also been ministering angels in the Church which were of Satan appearing as an angel of light. A sister in the state of New York had a vision, who said it was told her that if she would go to a certain place in the woods, and angel would appear to her. She went at the appointed time, and saw a glorious personage descending, arrayed in white, with sandy colored hair; he commenced and told her to fear God, and said that her husband was called to do great things, but that he must not go more than one hundred miles from home, or he would not return; whereas God had called him to go to the ends of the earth, and he has since been more than one thousand miles from home, and is yet alive. Many true things were spoken by this personage, and many things that were false. How, it may be asked, was this known to be a bad angel? By the color of his hair; that is one of the signs that he can be known by, and by his contradicting a former revelation."

--TPJS, pg.215

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Paul writes: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14) Later, the saints were warned, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal 1:<_<

If Satan does have the power to appear as an angel of light, why does he not do so more often? Do you suppose he is under restrictions and, if so, what do you think they are?

We hear occasionally of those who leave the church and establish themselves as ones holding the keys of authority, or declaring themselves as the one who is mighty and strong, and in the Book of Mormon we hear of appearances of false angels. Anyone have any views or experiences?

Satan can and does appear as aything he so desires,He even imitates the holy ghost.

This is why there are so many divisions between religons today, Some beleive they are

receiving the spirits power, when in actuality its satans influence.

Whenever this has happened to me {and its been a lot} sometimes he gets his way

For awhile, but for the most part, i have come to regignize that when satan is

behind what i am experiancing, There is always evidence of something just does

not feel right, or smell, jive,make sense, or add up! There is ALWAYS evidence

We just need to pat attn: {And do all he asks us to do helps} "he" as being God.

:P

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Hmmm. Cold Steel, I brought the issue up in the thread on cults (on whether the philosophy that I heard that

'Satan will give 9 truths for one falsehood', was actually demonising other religions). I think this thread ties in well with that idea.

Paul, of course is trying (if he is being quoted correctly) to protect what HE believes to be God's true doctrines. The interesting part is the extent to which what he was teaching actually matched the teachings of the eye witness apostles or even Jesus himself, and how that might bear on what he is quoted as saying!

Isn't there a story of early church members being decieved by 'angels of light' who were infact demons? (It's there in my memory box somewhere!). Many religious leaders I think want to stick an exclusivity claim on religious truth.

Moroni 7 is interesting to look at, particularly v 12

12 Wherefore, all things which are good cometh of God; and that which is evil cometh of the devil; for the devil is an enemy unto God, and fighteth against him continually, and inviteth and enticeth to sin, and to do that which is evil continually.

13 But behold, that which is of God inviteth and enticeth to do good continually; wherefore, every thing which inviteth and enticeth to do good, and to love God, and to serve him, is inspired of God.

14 Wherefore, take heed, my beloved brethren, that ye do not judge that which is evil to be of God, or that which is good and of God to be of the devil.

Moroni, goes on to talk about the qualities of faith, hope and charity. It is my belief that someone like Mother Teresa who built her life on these qualities to their fullness was living this particular philosophy to the full.

There's lots in v 12 that are interesting to look at in terms of Joseph Smith's own life. Of course it again depends on how one defines good, evil and sin!!!!!

Mary

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Paul writes: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14) Later, the saints were warned, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal 1::P

If Satan does have the power to appear as an angel of light, why does he not do so more often? Do you suppose he is under restrictions and, if so, what do you think they are?

We hear occasionally of those who leave the church and establish themselves as ones holding the keys of authority, or declaring themselves as the one who is mighty and strong, and in the Book of Mormon we hear of appearances of false angels. Anyone have any views or experiences?

I don't know exactly what that means, that Satan can appear as an "angel of light" -- but of this I think I am sure -- that he does so in order to deceive. He will do anything in his power to deceive us, but he cannot make us sin. We choose to do it.

We are promised that if we build upon the Rock, Jesus Christ, that we cannot be deceived. We are safe as long as we choose to remain close to Him. The problem is we keep wandering back out there and getting our noses bloodied.

You ask, why he does not do so more often. And I ask -- what makes you think he's not doing so very often?

There have been groups who have broken off from the Church. Once they do so ... in my opinion ... they cease to hold the keys or the truth. The Lord reveals many things unto us ... many things of deep import and meaning ... which we are to keep to ourselves. We are not to preach these things openly as doctrine. We are not to trump the Brethren. We can have an Apostolic-level witness, but that does not make us Apostles. Even if we have seen Christ Himself, we are still to submit to the counsel and direction of our Bishops, Stake Presidents, etc. That is they way He has set things up. Period.

That is my "take" on this topic.

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Moreholinessgiveme,

He will do anything in his power to deceive us, but he cannot make us sin. We choose to do it.

So, how would you define sin? And do you think that Joseph Smith sinned when he took other mens wives, and if so, what does that say about who or what was influencing him? (In the light of Moroni 7)

Mary

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Moreholinessgiveme,

So, how would you define sin? And do you think that Joseph Smith sinned when he took other mens wives, and if so, what does that say about who or what was influencing him? (In the light of Moroni 7)

Mary

There is an answer to your questions, certainly.

I am not sure if I am the right person to be answering them, though.

Have you asked the Lord about these things?

How would you answer these questions if I asked them of you?

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Kamenraider Good post as usual.

011124photo.jpg

I think its good to remind lds of the correct usage of the name Satan as an archetype to represent a third of the fallen Angels and I would suggest rarely the individual himself. The quote from the TPJS is true as I have said before about the hair color a distortion a kind of sandy grainy fake blonde yellow and eye color a strange cintilating blue eyes that appear to be lifeless. There is another quote about the disengenious eye color of Angels of light, dunno where though anyone? It also appears that the ability to produce the pure kind of lumincent white light that Joseph Smith describes in his first vision account (white flare/magnesium color intensity) cannot be achieved by imposters, often a yellowish or blue tinted light is attempted, and this is practically ubiquitos phenomina in accounts of people who claim angelic administration/epiphanies.

Of course it goes without saying that an Angel of light can appear as anything mimic any voice or gender clothing anything. Although usually in my experience individual spirits have a reprotior of imitations. Ripping off deceased loved ones is a nasty cruel trick that is often employed for example.

Long time ago in my city the Stake Presidency was led for months by false Angels of Light. Which interestingly was never detected only the strange actions of the Stake Presidency were reported to higher-ups but interestingly they themselves couldn't make a detection. There are some really interesting Egyptian pictures of the Devil in the garden of eden that were used in church manuals at some point I think. They show a snakes head and neck mounted on a pair of profiled human legs. If anyone has these pics I would be interested.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnLwQel5f7E...ted&search=

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There is an answer to your questions, certainly.

I am not sure if I am the right person to be answering them, though.

Have you asked the Lord about these things?

How would you answer these questions if I asked them of you?

sin is missing the mark of perfection set by God

Yes I asked the LORD about this

Yes JS sinned in taking more than one wife

And because Iii can answer these---doesn't qualify me to be the right person either :P

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Identifying false angels is so important that we were given an entire section of the D&C on how to ID them:

SECTION 129

Instructions given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Nauvoo, Illinois, February 9, 1843, making known three grand keys by which the correct nature of ministering angels and spirits may be distinguished. HC 5:267.

1â??3, There are both resurrected and spirit bodies in heaven;

4â??9, Keys are given whereby messengers from beyond the veil may be identified.

1 THERE are two kinds of beings in heaven, namely: Angels, who are resurrected personages, having bodies of flesh and bonesâ??

2 For instance, Jesus said: Handle me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

3 Secondly: the spirits of just men made perfect, they who are not resurrected, but inherit the same glory.

4 When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you.

5 If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.

6 If he be the spirit of a just man made perfect he will come in his glory; for that is the only way he can appearâ??

7 Ask him to shake hands with you, but he will not move, because it is contrary to the order of heaven for a just man to deceive; but he will still deliver his message.

8 If it be the devil as an angel of light, when you ask him to shake hands he will offer you his hand, and you will not feel anything; you may therefore detect him.

9 These are three grand keys whereby you may know whether any administration is from God.

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It seems as though God allows an onslaught of chaos for his children seeking for truth if devils can appear as angels and deceive the very elect. We also read that many will bring forth great signs and miracles that are of the devil.

If we can't trust angels, miracles or feelings then how do we know for sure when we are ever being led by God? How do we know Joseph Smith wasn't visited by an angel of light in his bedroom calling himself Moroni?

The very elect will be deceived. How do you know you haven't?

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It seems as though God allows an onslaught of chaos for his children seeking for truth if devils can appear as angels and deceive the very elect. We also read that many will bring forth great signs and miracles that are of the devil.

If we can't trust angels, miracles or feelings then how do we know for sure when we are ever being led by God? How do we know Joseph Smith wasn't visited by an angel of light in his bedroom calling himself Moroni?

The very elect will be deceived. How do you know you haven't?

Excellant question! Probably the best I have ever seen asked on a MB.

For my answer I give this. The God who speaks to me is the same God that speaks out of the Bible. Their voice is the same. I don't rely on experience, but then thery are important. I don't rely on my faith--but I need it. I trust that God is who he said he is and will do what he says he will do-----------and to valodate that point--------he is doing it.

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I think you have the wrong youtube link? A haunting in Conneticut?

Wouldn't the most common application of Paul's statement be that those who follow a false apostle also appear to be similar to someone who followed him?

So how do we tell?

One way I tell is to pay attention to whom someone hears over another.

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Simple answer the keys to detect imposition are imparted to the Temple endowment initiate. If there were many Leo Nardo Da Vinci's and Nikola Tesla's so to speak, geniuses that were a part of the third that were cast out and I presume there were, such noble and great ones cast out. Then naturally the real question is what use are a few simple hand shakes and passwords against supremely intelligent false spirits that have been on the earth thousands of years that also have no veil and received their education in the celestial universities above? I wondered about this for some time and one day it clicked.

angel-light.jpg

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Moreholinessgiveme,

So, how would you define sin? And do you think that Joseph Smith sinned when he took other mens wives, and if so, what does that say about who or what was influencing him? (In the light of Moroni 7)

Mary

Moreover, in all of my readings about Joseph being threatened by an angel with a flaming sword I do not recall Joseph insisting the angel first pass the handshake test. You would think that he would be inclined to do so if a supposed angel of light was threatening his life (which doesn't sound like a very angelic thing to do).

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Paul writes: "And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." (2 Cor. 11:14) Later, the saints were warned, "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed." (Gal 1:<_<

If Satan does have the power to appear as an angel of light, why does he not do so more often? Do you suppose he is under restrictions and, if so, what do you think they are?

We hear occasionally of those who leave the church and establish themselves as ones holding the keys of authority, or declaring themselves as the one who is mighty and strong, and in the Book of Mormon we hear of appearances of false angels. Anyone have any views or experiences?

He tried that with Moses...see Book of Moses 1: 12-16

Pa Pa :P

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Here are a few comments from Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Four 1839-42 Pg.161-162)

We may look for angels and receive their ministrations, but we are to try the spirits and prove them, for it is often the case that men make a mistake in regard to these things. God has so ordained that when He has communicated, no vision is to be taken but what you see by the seeing of the eye, or what you hear by the hearing of the ear. When you see a vision, pray for the interpretation; if you get not this, shut it up; there must be certainty in this matter. An open vision will manifest that which is more important. Lying spirits are going forth in the earth. There will be great manifestations of spirits, both false and true.

Being born again, comes by the Spirit of God through ordinances. An angel of God never has wings. Some will say that they have seen a spirit; that he offered them his hand, but they did not touch it. This is a lie. First, it is contrary to the plan of God; a spirit cannot come but in glory; an angel has flesh and bones; we see not their glory. The devil may appear as an angel of light. Ask God to reveal it; if it be of the devil, he will flee from you; if of God, He will manifest Himself, or make it manifest. We may come to Jesus and ask Him; He will know all about it; if He comes to a little child, he will adapt himself to the language and capacity of a little child.

Not every spirit, or vision, or singing, is of God. The devil is an orator; he is powerful; he took our Savior on to a pinnacle of the Temple, and kept Him in the wilderness for forty days. The gift of discerning spirits will be given to the Presiding Elder. Pray for him that he may have this gift. Speak not in the gift of tongues without understanding it, or without interpretation. The devil can speak in tongues; the adversary will come with his work; he can tempt all classes; can speak in English or Dutch. Let no one speak in tongues unless he interpret, except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside; then he may discern or interpret, or another may. Let us seek for the glory of Abraham, Noah, Adam, the Apostles, who have communion with [knowledge of] these things, and then we shall be among that number when Christ comes. (July 2, 1839.) DHC 3:383-392.

There is more about the trying the spirits in the following:
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Four 1839-42 Pg.202-208)

Recent occurrences that have transpired amongst us render it an imperative duty devolving upon me to say something in relation to the spirits by which men are actuated.

It is evident from the Apostles' writings, that many false spirits existed in their day, and had "gone forth into the world," and that it needed intelligence which God alone could impart to detect false spirits, and to prove what spirits were of God. The world in general have been grossly ignorant in regard to this one thing, and why should they be otherwise -- for "the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God."

The Egyptians were not able to discover the difference between the miracles of Moses and those of the magicians until they came to be tested together; and if Moses had not appeared in their midst, they would unquestionably have thought that the miracles of the magicians were performed through the mighty power of God, for they were great miracles that were performed by them -- a supernatural agency was developed, and great power manifested.

It would have been equally as difficult for us to tell by what spirit the Apostles prophesied, or by what power the Apostles spoke and worked miracles. Who could have told whether the power of Simon, the sorcerer, was of God or of the devil?

There always did, in every age, seem to be a lack of intelligence pertaining to this subject. Spirits of all kinds have been manifested, in every age, and almost among all people.

If we go among the pagans, they have their spirits; the Mohammedans, the Jews, the Christians, the Indians -- all have their spirits, all have a supernatural agency, and all contend that their spirits are of God. Who shall solve the mystery? "Try the spirits," says John, but who is to do it? The learned, eloquent, the philosopher, the sage, the divine -- all are ignorant. The heathens will boast of their gods, and of the great things that have been unfolded by their oracles. The Mussulman will boast of his Koran, and of the divine communications that his progenitors have received. The Jews have had numerous instances, both ancient and modern, among them of men who have professed to be inspired, and sent to bring about great events, and the Christian world has not been slow in making up the number.

"Try the spirits," but what by? Are we to try them by the creeds of men? What preposterous folly -- what sheer ignorance -- what madness! Try the motions and actions of an eternal being (for I contend that all spirits are such) by a thing that was conceived in ignorance, and brought forth in folly -- a cobweb of yesterday! Angels would hide their faces, and devils would be ashamed and insulted, and would say, "Paul we know, and Jesus we know, but who are ye?" Let each man of society make a creed and try evil spirits by it, and the devil would shake his sides; it is all that he would ask -- all that he would desire. Yet many of them do this, and hence "many spirits are abroad in the world."

And also the following:
(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, Section Four 1839-42 Pg.204-205)

Every one of these professes to be competent to try his neighbor's spirit, but no one can try his own, and what is the reason? Because they have not a key to unlock, no rule wherewith to measure, and no criterion whereby they can test it. Could any one tell the length, breadth or height of a building without a rule? Test the quality of metals without a criterion, or point out the movements of the planetary systems, without a knowledge of astronomy? Certainly not; and if such ignorance as this is manifested about a spirit of this kind, who can describe an angel of light? If Satan should appear as one in glory, who can tell his color, his signs, his appearance, his glory, or what is the manner of his manifestation? Who can detect the spirit of the French prophets with their revelations and their visions, and power of manifestations? Or who can point out the spirit of the Irvingites, with their apostles and prophets, and visions and tongues, and interpretations, etc. Or who can drag into daylight and develop the hidden mysteries of the false spirits that so frequently are made manifest among the Latter-day Saints? We answer that no man can do this without the Priesthood, and having a knowledge of the laws by which spirits are governed; for as no man knows the things of God, but by the Spirit of God, so no man knows the spirit of the devil, and his power and influence, but by possessing intelligence which is more than human, and having unfolded through the medium of the Priesthood the mysteries operations of his devices; without knowing the angelic form, the sanctified look and gesture, and the zeal that is frequently manifested by him for the glory of God, together with the prophetic spirit, the gracious influence, the godly appearance, and the holy garb, which are so characteristic of his proceedings and his mysterious windings.

A man must have the discerning of spirits before he can drag into daylight this hellish influence and unfold it unto the world in all its soul-destroying, diabolical, and horrid colors; for nothing is a greater injury to the children of men than to be under the influence of a false spirit when they think they have the Spirit of God. Thousands have felt the influence of its terrible power and baneful effects. Long pilgrimages have been undertaken, penances endured, and pain, misery and ruin have followed in their train; nations have been convulsed, kingdoms overthrown, provinces laid waste, and blood, carnage and desolation are habiliments in which it has been clothed.

As we have noticed before, the great difficulty lies in the ignorance of the nature of spirits, of the laws by which they are governed, and the signs by which they may be known; if it requires the Spirit of God to know the things of God; and the spirit of the devil can only be unmasked through that medium, then it follows as a natural consequence that unless some person or persons have a communication, or revelation from God, unfolding to them the operation of the spirit, they must eternally remain ignorant of these principles; for I contend that if one man cannot understand these things but by the Spirit of God, ten thousand men cannot; it is alike out of the reach of the wisdom of the learned, the tongue of the eloquent, the power of the mighty. And we shall at last have to come to this conclusion, whatever we may think of revelation, that without it we can neither know nor understand anything of God, or the devil; and however unwilling the world may be to acknowledge this principle, it is evident from the multifarious creeds and notions concerning this matter that they understand nothing of this principle, and it is equally as plain that without a divine communication they must remain in ignorance. The world always mistook false prophets for true ones, and those that were sent of God, they considered to be false prophets and hence they killed, stoned, punished and imprisoned the true prophets, and these had to hide themselves "in deserts and dens, and caves of the earth," and though the most honorable men of the earth, they banished them from their society as vagabonds, whilst they cherished, honored and supported knaves, vagabonds, hypocrites, impostors, and the basest of men.

A man must have the discerning of spirits, as we before stated, to understand these things, and how is he to obtain this gift if there are no gifts of the Spirit? And how can these gifts be obtained without revelation? "Christ ascended into heaven, and gave gifts to men; and he gave some Apostles, and some Prophets, and some Evangelists, and some Pastors and Teachers." And how were Apostles, Prophets, Pastors, Teachers and Evangelists chosen? By prophecy (revelation) and by laying on of hands -- by a divine communication, and a divinely appointed ordinance -- through the medium of the Priesthood, organized according to the order of God, by divine appointment. The Apostles in ancient times held the keys of this Priesthood -- of the mysteries of the Kingdom of God, and consequently were enabled to unlock and unravel all things pertaining to the government of the Church, the welfare of society, the future destiny of men, and the agency, power and influence of spirits; for they could control them at pleasure, bid them depart in the name of Jesus, and detect their mischievous and mysterious operations when trying to palm themselves upon the Church in a religious garb, and militate against the interest of the Church and spread truth. We read that they "cast out devils in the name of Jesus," and when a woman possessing the spirit of divination, cried before Paul and Silas, "these are the servants of the Most High God that show unto us the way of salvation," they detected the spirit. And although she spake favorably of them, Paul commanded the spirit come out of her, and saved themselves from the opprobrium that might have been heaped upon their heads, through an alliance with her, in the development of her wicked principles, which they certainly would have been charged with, if they had not rebuked the evil spirit.

A power similar to this existed through the medium of the Priesthood in different ages. Moses could detect the magician's power, and show that he [himself] was God's servant -- he knew when he was upon the mountain (through revelation) that Israel was engaged in idolatry; he could develop the sin of Korah, Dathan and Abiram, detect witches and wizards in their proceedings, and point out the true prophets of the Lord. Joshua knew how to detect the man who had stolen the wedge of gold and the Babylonish garment. Michaiah could point out the false spirit by which the four hundred prophets were governed; and if his advice had been taken, many lives would have been spared, (2 Chronicles 18) Elijah, Elisha, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, and many other prophets possessed this power. Our Savior, the Apostles, and even the members of the Church were endowed with this gift, for, says Paul, (1 Corinthians 12), "To one is given the gift of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues, to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another the discerning of spirits." All these proceeded from the same Spirit of God, and were the gifts of God. The Ephesian church were enabled by this principle, "to try those that said they were apostles, and were not, and found them liars." (Revelation 2:2.)

In tracing the thing to the foundation, and looking at it philosophically, we shall find a very material difference between the body and the spirit; the body is supposed to be organized matter, and the spirit, by many, is thought to be immaterial, without substance. With this latter statement we should beg leave to differ, and state the spirit is a substance; that it is material, but that it is more pure, elastic and refined matter than the body; that it existed before the body, can exist in the body; and will exist separate from the body, when the body will be mouldering in the dust; and will in the resurrection be again united with it.

Without attempting to describe this mysterious connection, and the laws that govern the body and the spirit of man, their relationship to each other, and the design of God in relation to the human body and spirit, I would just remark, that the spirits of men are eternal, that they are governed by the same Priesthood that Abraham, Melchizedek, and the Apostles were: that they are organized according to that Priesthood which is everlasting, "without beginning of days or end of year," -- that they all move in their respective spheres, and are governed by the law of God; that when they appear upon the earth they are in a probationary state, and are preparing, if righteous, for a future and greater glory; that the spirits of good men cannot interfere with the wicked beyond their prescribed bounds, for Michael, the Archangel, dared not bring a railing accusation against the devil, but said, "The Lord rebuke thee, Satan."

It would seem also, that wicked spirits have their bounds, limits, and laws by which they are governed or controlled, and know their future destiny; hence, those that were in the maniac said to our Savior, "Art thou come to torment us before the time," and when Satan presented himself before the Lord, among the sons of God, he said that he came "from going to and fro in the earth, and from wandering up and down in it;" and he is emphatically called the prince of the power of the air; and, it is very evident that they possess a power that none but those who have the Priesthood can control, as we have before adverted to, in the case of the sons of Sceva.

Sorry for the length but I hope this helps.
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Moreholinessgiveme,

So, how would you define sin? And do you think that Joseph Smith sinned when he took other mens wives, and if so, what does that say about who or what was influencing him? (In the light of Moroni 7)

Mary

Well Abulafia, the LDS stock answer to that is that other men's wives were only spiritually sealed to Joseph Smith. In other words he did not have sexual relations with them. Thus he was not allegedly committing sin. Do you believe that?

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Abulafia,

you self-righteously prated:

Moroni 7 is interesting to look at, particularly v 12

Moroni, goes on to talk about the qualities of faith, hope and charity. It is my belief that someone like Mother Teresa who built her life on these qualities to their fullness was living this particular philosophy to the full.

There's lots in v 12 that are interesting to look at in terms of Joseph Smith's own life. Of course it again depends on how one defines good, evil and sin!!!!!

Yes, and fortunately it's not up to you to judge Joseph's life. (Or even Mother Theresa's.) I doubt that there's any less in that verse that might be interesting to look at in terms of your own life, but fortunately for you, we know a whole lot less about your life than we do about Joseph's.

But we know enough to reliably conclude that there is no measure by which you are any more righteous than he was.

Regards,

Pahoran

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So, this hasn't been specifically talked about on this thread, but I do like to mention something whenever 2 Cor 11:14 comes up.

Ok, we admit: Some A are B. It does not follow that all B are A. Nor does it follow that you have to assume A when you see B, especially after reading Matt 7:20.

or

Ya know what else looks like an Angel of light? How about an Angel of Light!

or

Just cuz Satan dresses up as someone, doesn't mean that someone doesn't exist.

or

It is not offensive to reason or Christian faith at all, to admit the plausibility of Joseph actually seeing a heavenly messenger, actually sent from heaven.

Disclaimer: I'm not accusing anyone on this thread of anything.

HSR

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