Losing the Battle and Not Knowing It

[Nofear]

Many years ago some evangelicals wrote a provocative article: "Losing Battle & Not Knowing It"
https://ldsfocuschrist2.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/losing-battle-not-knowing-it-carl-mosser-paul-owens-1997/

The basic thesis was that LDS apologetics and scholarship was dismantling many evangelical arguments against Mormonism. This Ward Radio episode reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VpPzGH2Wg the state of things 29 years later.

Gemini generated summary: 

Quote

This video from Ward Radio's YouTube Channel, titled "Evangelical Anti-Mormons STILL Losing the Battle with Mormons... After A 29 Year Old Warning!", examines the ongoing intellectual and apologetic dialogue between Evangelical Christians and members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS).

The discussion centers around a well-known paper originally presented by Evangelical scholars Carl Mosser and Paul Owen titled "Losing the Battle and Not Knowing It".

Core Themes & Key Takeaways

• The 29-Year-Old Warning: The hosts revisit the paper's original premise, which cautioned the Evangelical community that Latter-day Saint scholars were producing rigorous, peer-reviewed, and well-researched theological defenses that Evangelicals were largely ignoring or unprepared to address.

• Evangelical Misconceptions: The episode discusses how Evangelical counter-cult ministries historically dismissed Latter-day Saint theology as simplistic, failing to recognize the depth and academic rigor of LDS scholarship (such as work emerging from FARMS/BYU).

• Critique of Popular Apologetics: The hosts evaluate common anti-Mormon literature and responses (including works by figures like James White), arguing that many of these materials rely on outdated arguments, sensationalism, or straw-man representations rather than substantive engagement.

• The Persistence of Outdated Material: A key point of discussion is how Evangelical publishers have continued to circulate decades-old criticisms that LDS scholars had already addressed, reflecting an unheeded call within Evangelical scholarship to elevate their academic standards.

• Modern-Day Assessment: Looking at the landscape today, the hosts conclude that Mosser and Owen's warnings remain relevant, arguing that modern Evangelical engagement with Latter-day Saint apologetics still suffers from many of the same blind spots identified nearly three decades ago.

An fun example of just that thing was when Jacob Hansen met with several evangelicals and showed they simply couldn't understand his argument with rejoinders, "You just don't believe the Bible!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQuRx_7mf0k

You can find many other examples of diminishing returns of LDS contrary arguments: the decreasing number of anachronisms, archeology, apocryphal texts, etc.

Thoughts?

 

[Navidad]

1 hour ago, Nofear said:

Many years ago some evangelicals wrote a provocative article: "Losing Battle & Not Knowing It"
https://ldsfocuschrist2.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/losing-battle-not-knowing-it-carl-mosser-paul-owens-1997/

The basic thesis was that LDS apologetics and scholarship was dismantling many evangelical arguments against Mormonism. This Ward Radio episode reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VpPzGH2Wg the state of things 29 years later.

Gemini generated summary: 

 

An fun example of just that thing was when Jacob Hansen met with several evangelicals and showed they simply couldn't understand his argument with rejoinders, "You just don't believe the Bible!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQuRx_7mf0k

You can find many other examples of diminishing returns of LDS contrary arguments: the decreasing number of anachronisms, archeology, apocryphal texts, etc.

Thoughts?

 

My thoughts are that there are plenty of blindspots to go around. As an Evangelical I am not unprepared; nor do I ignore our differences. I choose rather to engage in hotcakes with bacon well done. They bring more people together than all the apologetics in the world.  As an Evangelical I don't deny the LDS the fullness of their relationship with Christ. I might simply suggest that in denying the fullness of my participation in the Holy Spirit you have the blind spot which is generated by your apologista and doctrine. You may not even get to know me prior to assuring me that I cannot possibly have the Gift of the Holy Spirit as a non- LDS Christian. As some LDS have told me "It's nothing personal!" Ha, talk about a blind spot! Best wishes to you anyway!

 

[The Nehor]

I think it is more that 90%+ of their arguments against Mormonism work equally well as criticisms of their own faith.

[Navidad]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think it is more that 90%+ of their arguments against Mormonism work equally well as criticisms of their own faith.

So we are all equal opportunity criticizers! That sounds to me like something @The Nehor would enjoy!

[Anakin7]

My Brother In Christ Jesus D. Charles Pyle and I met Carl Mosser many years ago, from memory he was Christlike and Charitable while visiting with us.

[BlipBlap]

19 hours ago, Nofear said:

Many years ago some evangelicals wrote a provocative article: "Losing Battle & Not Knowing It"
https://ldsfocuschrist2.wordpress.com/2007/04/11/losing-battle-not-knowing-it-carl-mosser-paul-owens-1997/

The basic thesis was that LDS apologetics and scholarship was dismantling many evangelical arguments against Mormonism. This Ward Radio episode reviews https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4VpPzGH2Wg the state of things 29 years later.

Gemini generated summary: 

 

An fun example of just that thing was when Jacob Hansen met with several evangelicals and showed they simply couldn't understand his argument with rejoinders, "You just don't believe the Bible!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQuRx_7mf0k

You can find many other examples of diminishing returns of LDS contrary arguments: the decreasing number of anachronisms, archeology, apocryphal texts, etc.

Thoughts?

 

Bad apologetics is essentially a built-in feature for a lot of the evangelical side of the Protestant group.  It's a movement built more or less on "Catholics bad" and, at least to me, seems to be a religion for people who either want as little engagement as possible with theology or who are masochistic.  It has mass appeal because of the general lack of commitment and is attractive to people who want easy money (vocational pastors).  "Jesus Jesus Jesus, Bible Bible Bible.  Why yes, I do accept all major credit cards."