Devobah

Let’s face it: we are a group on a very short list that you can make fun of without much backlash. Weird history, strange doctrines, and seemingly never in the news for good things (outside of Church Newsroom). We’re the group that loves everybody and seemingly everybody doesn’t like us. I’ve stopped losing sleep over it. It’s just the way things are. People will make their jokes and then make their retractions because it’s not like anyone’s lost a job over it (meaning any anti-LDS chants or comments). If there is a fine it’s not anything big at all in the vast wealth that some of these schools have. Make the statement and then issue an apology. Chant your chant and then pay the fine. It’s still going to happen again because it always has. It is what it is.

Most teachers use a checker for such things. The problem with that is the checkers are very much imperfect. Plus there’s “humanizer” AI to get around that. It really just comes around to knowing your students, how they talk and how they write. Or you can quiz them on their work and have them tell you about it. Some teachers quiz their students on the vocabulary found in the paper. It’s really a hassle. There’s even people on Tik Tok that are in college helping people get around their work using AI. It’s becoming a major problem.

I guess you could call this Non-Fiction. I really enjoy reading “The Anthropocene Reviewed” by John Green. It’s a group of essays written by Green about Earth and giving reviews (from one to five stars) about the various things. It’s geared towards a younger audience, as he is a YA author mostly, and you can definitely tell. But it also celebrates humanity, our world, and all of our wacky creations, missteps, and other things. I revisit this book probably once every year. I’ve even added it to my curriculum that I teach as part of my Sophomore English class. (Students choose essays that they would like to read, annotate, add footnotes, and present on) Students usually enjoy things like this. Something they can choose and even relate to.

After seeing all the comments from people in various comment sections, it’s split in half. People will adore the friendliness and neighborliness of Latter-day Saints, but then be met with (or even say themselves) “but they’re heretics, non-Christian, and unsaved.” It just makes me sick that sympathy and empathy come with an asterisk on this case. No matter how many people decry this action. Like they don’t actually care about it because “well it wasn’t someone on MY team. If it was someone on my team then this whole thing would be completely different.” To the credit of a lot of people (perhaps an equal amount) in those comment sections, some of the comments are basically what Michael calls for above or even say: - “Not the time for this” or “Read the room” - “Is a Christian not a person who believes in Jesus Christ as Savior and Redeemer?” - Various other defenses accepting Latter-day Saints as Christians based on their actions. Me personally, after looking around and seeing the responses, I’ve come to a few conclusions: 1) I don’t very much care if someone calls me a Christian or not. If my full sympathy for someone is contingent on their belief system, then I am no better than the Scribes and Pharisees of Christ’s day. 2) When lay Christians can’t even define what makes a Christian, then it’s no wonder why there needed to be a Restoration. The definition changes from person to person. If you say “believe in the Nicene Creed” then you must accept Catholics and Orthodox under that umbrella. And I know plenty of evangelicals who don’t because the Catholics believe other “heresies”. Nobody can really define it. Sorry. I’m getting off topic. I pray that the people effected by this find the peace of Christ, and those who have passed find peace in Christ.

Oh great. That's just great. I see Mark didn't do any other research outside of the fact that the guy was on the records of the Church.

Wait where did Mark Driscoll say that?

I could see the funeral happening relatively quickly this week, since the general authorities are gathered for conference. Will it happen? I don’t know.

Which is a shame. I actually really respected her. I thought she would be the future of her party and inspire some good change.

I’m sorry. I take responsibility for that. I think I’ve spent too much time on the internet lately. President Nelson was a prophet of God and I loved him. I remember one of the very few honest to goodness spiritual confirmations that I had that he was a prophet. That first talk got me to realize that I needed to get myself right spiritually.

Looks like the comment I saw earlier may have been deleted on the Church announcement (either by the church YouTube channel or by Youtube itself. It's hard to be sure.) but this guy was going through basically saying that Nelson will be judged for his sins and how he will probably burn in hell because of a lot of stuff. He mentioned the shell companies donating money to Hamas (which is new to me), how he basically instrumented every excommunication over the course of his presidency, and a lot of other stuff. All I could think of was, "Wow, some people will really just say anything as long as it's negative towards a person or organization they don't like." I wish I could find the original comment again. I was going to screenshot it to post the content (not the picture) here because it really was bizarre.

I only found out somewhat recently that lots of exmos actually despise President Nelson. They called him power hungry and how he only cared about getting more and more temples so he could pass Hinkley for number of temples announced. It was very odd. With Oaks up next, I can only imagine the rage.

I couldn’t believe it when I saw it. May he rest in peace with the Savior.

Their right to not have their names removed even if they are inactive. That’s what I was referring to. So do you have proof or not? Your anecdotes mean very little here. Your word doesn't count either. Do you have the evidence? Even if the gentlemen who has called in the bomb threats has a temple recommend. There was plenty of discussion just on this board about their excommunication proceedings. Unfortunately it’s very much a stake president to stake president basis.

We don't know the hearts of the people. A lot of people don't attend for a variety of reasons, but they still want to remain a member. That's their right. Anecdotes are not a good way to measure something. I'd also like a CFR on this. Where are you getting this? The gospel is one of change and repentance. Christ changes habits. Once again, speculation. And even if he does have one, that's his problem, not yours to police. People are free to eat and drink damnation to their soul. God will not be mocked. People's paths divert and come back. What's the correct amount of time to ex someone if they don't show. @Calm told you about her current attendance. I know that there are others that are believers that don't attend. John Dehlin, Jeremy Runnells, and a few other notable antis remained on the roles for a significant amount of time. You give them time to change and come back.

It only contributes to talking past each other. Quote mining in the extreme.

They seem to want to tie LDS teachings to his actions. Or the fact that he had an LDS upbringing being the reason that he’s a bit messed up. Kind of like the Ruby Franke situation but almost worse?

Does Twitter have that kind of auto play system? It’s been years since I’ve had a Twitter and I don’t know how much has changed. I'm sorry you had that experience. I agree that it must have been disgusting and horrifying

Unfortunately I don’t see this going anywhere. The thread is inherently politically charged, and nowadays there isn’t much positive discourse between those of left and right ideologies. For every quote that Mr. Kirk said that could show him in a positive light, there’s another that could show him a negative light. I did see a video that someone said that we are so desensitized to death and shooting that we can even show the video on social media and will keep it up even if it’s horrific. I myself have scrolled past every video that even might allude to showing the shooting. I’ve struggled the past few days with this. The horrible reactions from both sides, the lack of empathy (even if Mr. Kirk said he didn’t believe in it) from one side, and this very special treatment from the other. I mourn the loss of life of one whom I believe shouldn’t have had his taken away. The shooter robbed him of any opportunity to change any viewpoints, even if it’s very slim. His wife has been robbed of a husband, their children of a father. The people there will have an image burned in their brains for the rest of their lives. This includes a cousin of who was in attendance. I’ve turned off social media for a time being. I don’t know if I’ll ever check more than once or twice a month now. Being in the middle of so much noise has had me feeling like staring at the abyss and I’m the one who blinked. I have friends on both sides of the political parties, and have not found peace in their words. May we all be peacemakers, as advised.

It seems that the shooter did have an LDS upbringing, and there’s a few people on the internet (in the comments of the Amir Odom video) that are attempting to tie the act to that upbringing, which sickens me. The Exmormon subreddit has a thread that is about how the church will respond, and some are saying that they find it funny that the church tries to distance themselves from those that do acts that don’t put the church in a good light.

I would have loved a biography a for Emma. That would be pretty cool. We don’t have too many things though. I’m happy to be corrected. edit to add: I know we have a few that are out there with about 5 seconds googling. They seem to be overshadowed by “Mormon Enigma” though.

Oh I knew about it but I think that just studying that every year would eventually get bland. At least with “Teachings of the Presidents of the Church” you could go through what each church president taught. Perhaps you could build from “Women at the Pulpit” though.

I think it would be cool to get to a point where you could “Teachings of Women in the Church”. I think that if you just did relief society presidency you wouldn’t have enough. It would be interesting though.

Family history really is something that I should look more into. I don't know for sure if mine is as detailed as yours is though. This is very interesting.

I take that to mean that you're referring to the courtships? Edit: I guess I should remember to read the entire thing before I respond. That is exactly what you are referring to.

I appreciate you sharing the stories. I think the primary purpose of David’s video was to answer the question of if the missionaries were helping traffic women to the US to be wife’s up. It’s a shorter video, only 10 minutes long. Video formats are useful in a lot of things, but this is one of the reasons why it is not. David isn’t trying to say that people didn’t have it hard during polygamy (recorded records of the blessings and hardships of those within the practice show that) but rather that it wasn’t some nefarious scheme to get women to the US. I think the rest of the video deals with some interesting things about polygamy in the early Utah era as well. I hope you know I’m not trying to downplay your views on this. It’s an incredibly difficult subject for a lot of people and I’m no fan of it either, though I also had a few family members that practiced it as well. I like David and his videos and wanted to share this because it answered something that I saw in my journeys in the metaverse.