bluebell

Great minds think alike.

I feel like the 'juicy' part is just that he would invite the RS presidency to give him feedback and make edits (and not on what the edits were).

I wonder if they split the stake and that's how he ended up serving twice back-to-back. I've heard that most stake presidents serve for around 10 years (not sure if that's a new thing or not).

No new temples announced today.

No new temples announced. Pres. Oaks said that at this time we would focus on the ones that have already been announced and which are currently in progress.

Me too. New temple announcements are exciting, and sometimes it's more important and wise to focus on the ones that have been announced rather than announce more.

He fooled us all.

I've never seen him personally differently, but I'll still try to check out the book. Thanks for the recommendation!

There is always a chance that he might want counselors with a different perspective. Time will tell.

I thought the same thing!

Two Elder Cooks would be interesting. 😁

This is completely cynical of me, but I wonder if members are becoming more focused on showing off how Christlike and forgiving we are than helping pay medical bills. I don’t think it started out like that, but I worry that’s where it’s going.

I’m with you and that I don’t think they should keep bumping up the amount. I think once they have reached their goal that they should be able to ask people to donate to the actual victims. And I agree that at this point it’s starting to look a little self-aggrandizing.

I saw an interview that Butler gave, and he said that he’s had people calling him evil and complaining that he didn’t start one for the actual victims.

Great minds think alike!

I told me husband that I thought it was going to be Bednar and Elder Gong or Elder Soares. As far as a new apostle, I have no idea. I admit that I never pay much attention at all to the names of the speakers and honestly couldn't even tell you who the presiding bishop or any of the 70 are.

With love and respect, try not to hear what we didn't say. Speaking for myself, I do believe that LGBTQ+ discrimination is important to a majority of young people, but I don't personally believe that this episode was a sign of that. We are talking about kids that are mostly between the ages of 18-24. They were 8-14 years old in 2015 when the policy (which I'm glad they changed) happened. Most of them know very very little about our actual beliefs concerning lgtbq+. They know we don't support SSM and that's probably about it. Any protest about the issue at a sporting event against a team they were trying to annoy/insult would be tenuous at best I'm guessing. If we did allow SSM, I think we still would have gotten the same chant.

I think most students do care, at least theoretically and if you specifically asked them. But we are talking about a sporting event, not a protest. I don't think that most students are into activism at sporting events, but they are into being vulgar and rude to the opposing team if they can get away with it. In 2019 the Michigan State alumni got very bent out of shape when their student body started chanting "FU UT" at the University of Tulsa. In 2016 it was all over the papers when the student fans at a Catholic high school basketball game started chanting “You killed Jesus!” at Newton North High School fans, who I guess were Jewish. Do you think those fans were making a social or political statement? Or were they just being young and dumb? I would be very surprised if the majority of the colorado students did anything else that could even remotely be described as 'activism' (for any cause) during their daily lives. Precedent says this wasn't anything deeper this time either.

The chant was F the Mormons though.

Someone should probably tell these compassionate students that they aren't showing disdain for BYU, they are showing disdain for members of a religion, some of whom could be their own players and actually are their fellow students and faculty. And probably not a few of the people they are using the F word against support LGTBQ+ rights (though I very much doubt that this chant happened because of some kind of pro-gay activism.) The reason that alcohol got brought into the conversation was because Colorado's coach, Deion Sanders, brought it in. "On behalf of CU, on behalf of our athletic department, we would like to apologize to our opponents from a week ago for whatever derogatory statements were made by our fans," Sanders said. "That's not indicative of who we are. Our student body, our kids are phenomenal. So don't indict us just based on a group of young kids that probably was intoxicated and high simultaneously. Maybe I shouldn't have said that as well, but the truth gonna make you free. But BYU, we love you, we appreciate you, and we support you."

I see what you’re saying, and it’s reasonable. I tend to use the “Jewish religion” litmus test. If I’m OK with somebody doing it to or screaming it about “Jews” then I’m OK with them doing it to or screaming it about anyone else. Not because it’s ever OK, but because I think that different events come with different social contracts and people have a right to expect certain things at certain events. If I would absolutely be incensed and up in arms (theoretically speaking) over a group of college kids screaming “F the Jews” at a football game then same for them doing it to any other religion. Not because I don’t believe in protecting free speech, but because I think that people attending a football game sponsored by an organization they support have a right to attend without organized religious harassment. Under those circumstances, I think the students can take their free speech somewhere else or suffer the consequences.

If the other fans start feeling like they are going to be penalized because of the actions of a few, then they might stop tolerating the actions of the few. Social pressure is a good way to enact change sometimes.

They would probably depend on each unique situation, but my instinct is to become the squeaky wheel. Go with the chain of command as far as you can and start riding Salt Lake City if that’s your last option.But sadly, if a bishop and a Stake president are determined not to take Council with parents or follow the handbook then I think the parent would have to stop sending the kid to those weekly activities and take over that instruction themselves. It’s hard when ward leadership is that dysfunctional.

I don’t think it causes it, but I do think it contributes to it. I can think of two ways that it’s probably a large part of the problem, in my opinion. First, the hateful rhetoric and social media algorithms create enemies. Echo chambers give people an inflated sense of their own morality, and also an inflated sense of the other groups’ immorality. This leads to extremism when it goes unchecked, which is just another form of fanaticism. Couple that with people’s online addiction to rage-posting and actual violence is a natural consequence. Second, we seem to have a culture here in the US where violence against “the enemy” is celebrated. So not only is violence more likely, it’s also no longer taboo. That’s a lethal mixture. Though most people don’t go beyond online celebrations, their existence emboldens the few mentally unstable people who are willing to pull the trigger. I think you have a point though, and I don’t think it’s the whole picture. I think the breakdown of the social contract in our country is the third major component. We have increased hopelessness, a breakdown of the family unit (so more social isolation and less ongoing support) and a country that is slowly spiraling into collapse on most fronts (inflation, economy, housing, health care, and political instability). Like you said in your post, none of these, by themselves, can explain the state of things. There are lots of countries where people are more hopeless than we, less stable, much less wealthy, etc. and they don’t go out killing their ideological enemies. I think it takes all of these ingredients to make this soup, and we seem to have them.

Stopping the game and waiting for the unruly fans to leave before restarting it could be a deterrent, if the fans actually care about their team. Like Colorado coach Sanders said though, the fans were probably drunk and high, so expecting them to care about anything other than their own fun at that point is probably asking to much.