Calm

Would a study qualify as a hard look? https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2012/03/15/mormons-and-civic-life/ For comparison: Unfortunately they did not provide a breakdown of the four categories for American volunteers in general. I may be able to find it elsewhere. Still 34 hours in comparison to 48—if we assume all those hours for nonLDS are not church affiliated, which I find highly unlikely on average—is still quite significant in my view given we already were doing 393 hours of church affiliated work including 56 hours of community projects sponsored by the Church….so 90 hours total of service in the nonLDS community with over 1/3 of that self initiated. Also remember the 48 hours is not the average counting all Americans, but only for those already volunteering. The study cites it being 26-55% of the total population depending on the measure used where for self identified LDS it’s 62% volunteering for nonChurch affiliated projects, so percentage wise, more LDS volunteer for the community outside of church functions than nonLDS do, even if we are giving less hours (again assuming here the 48 are all nonChurch affiliated for the nonLDS which is highly unlikely). https://sp2.upenn.edu/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/cnaan_lds_giving.pdf Maybe you just weren’t aware of what others were doing unless it was a church activity? Are you still going to believe that it’s rare that church members volunteer outside church sponsored activities? If so, why since the data shows otherwise? (Not a challenge or accusation if you haven’t changed your mind and I hope no one else goes there….though I think I have presented a persuasive argument if I say so myself 😛 , I ask because I want to understand your thinking) PS: I do believe members should be asking themselves frequently what they can do outside of church sponsored efforts. Maybe that’s what is getting the 62% out there. But wouldn’t it be great if it was 94% (the percentage who do stuff for the ward or church) or greater?

I had considered making the same comment, but it’s possible that was a special case. But you don’t have to go back that far to find other examples given only four of the original modern apostles remained in good standing from the moment they were first called. Later apostles had it much easier in my view in terms of knowing what would be expected of them and what they could likely expect. Not that many life changing surprises or unexpected challenges to faith, I am guessing.

and casual Friday wear is likely loosening the tie.

It does this staticky gimmick, like it’s an old film that has been played a lot. So annoying. And a lot of the angels have wings, so like AI generated.

Not recommending the channel (in fact I give it a thumbs-down for poor choice of visual and clickbaity language and speculation imo) as asking for someone else as I can’t find the info on the YouTube website, anyone know who is behind it? https://youtube.com/@sacredgroveinsights I do like the voice, lol. Or rather it’s totally nonoffensive to my ears.

Huh? So Asian and mixed race Brazilian don’t “look like some of the larger minority demographics”? https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2018/06/29/mormon-churchs-newest/

Not logical. Just because one man was chosen doesn’t mean that other men weren’t eligible. I would assume it is not a competition for righteousness, all must meet a certain high, probably very high standard, but after that it is likely qualities in speaking, administration, etc. that matter. So there may be thousands or hundreds of thousands in the Church, including many in Africa meeting or exceeding the righteousness standard that all potential apostles must meet. The most righteous man in the Church may never have given a talk on Sunday or any other time because he has a phobia about public speaking. Or maybe he’s caring for a disabled wife and daughter. Or maybe he has to work three jobs and barely knows how to read. Or maybe he’s got terminal cancer. Or one of a thousand other reasons or combinations thereof that very righteous men have who haven’t served in high visibility callings. My guess is there is a massive amount of men who would like to be apostles who don’t qualify for it by any standard and of the massive amount of men in the Church that do qualify, my guess is a good percentage or perhaps even the majority of those who actually qualify have no desire to be one. Who wants to wear a business suit with a tie all the time? Can they at least travel in casual? Can you imagine seeing an apostle on a plane in a tshirt and jeans? Or having to work until you drop dead or just want to be because of being too ill or worn out?

The report the committee suggested a standing committee on race, equity, etc. I am getting overloaded, so need to focus on something else for awhile. Does anyone know if they created a standing committee or not?

From the above: Later, when he give the DEI quote, there is a link to a positive article about BYU’s version, so I am thinking it was lacking nuance rather than condemning anything resembling other universities’ programs. https://www.thechurchnews.com/2020/7/22/23265056/byu-committee-race-equity-belonging-connecting-community/ “Rooting out racism, healing its wounds and building bridges of understanding is the responsibility of every member of the BYU community. “That effort begins with understanding and living the two greatest commandments given to us by the Master Healer, Jesus Christ: to love God with all our hearts and to love our neighbors as ourselves (see Matthew 22:35–39).”” However, the current version says nothing about race or equity unfortunately in my view, pretty generic feel good version, which could describe almost any community that pushes having a positive outlook about fellow members, even if they happened to exclude others for the wrong reasons. And that concerns me. It is not a brave, not of this world, but God’s kingdom and proud of it statement, imo. Would love to change my mind, someone point out I missed something. My reasoning….celebrating the differences among accepted students in the university does not mean they celebrate differences among those outside the community. Thankfully this isn’t so, but the mission statement would still be applicable if they only accepted students of white European heritage. https://belonging.byu.edu/statement-on-belonging Though maybe that isn’t the current version, but rather the result of the Committee’s work. Odd that race isn’t mentioned though if so. https://news.byu.edu/announcements/byu-forms-new-office-of-belonging They do have a multicultural aspect, it just isn’t that prominent imo, which I would have expected it to be given the department is apparently the result of the committee that was focusing strongly on race and equity. https://belonging.byu.edu/racial-minority-resources

Just an fyi https://www.thechurchnews.com/living-faith/2022/8/17/23308942/elder-gilbert-byu-education-week-church-educational-system-courage-to-be-different/

While I agree BYU should have a different primary focus, gospel centered, this does sound like there is nothing useful to be learned or adopted from any of these programs, so problematic. I do see the possibility he was trying too hard to be brief though and lost needed nuance. And what he says below doesn’t contradict your comment. “Should” is not “is” However, the example you used…I am pretty sure it was demonstrated the slur did not occur (videos were watched). Not that it doesn’t actually happen at times, I would be shocked if it doesn’t. It does sound like this behaviour was expected and therefore misheard in this case and then likely embellished in the first online post about it. https://www.npr.org/2022/09/14/1122977386/byu-apologizes-to-a-banned-fan-saying-it-found-no-proof-they-yelled-racial-slurs

I am not impressed with the article. Because the claims were extreme…Wayfair trafficking missing kids as high priced cabinets. Have any of the missing kids claimed to be named been found, btw? Would be interesting to know their actual circumstances. added: https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/interactive/2021/wayfair-qanon-sex-trafficking-conspiracy/ (use “show reader” for easier reading) Such claims are not without very troubling consequences. JVW, I know you want to do the right thing. You really need to stop this as it will perpetuate the harm this conspiracy caused those kids.

Can’t see anyone else it was written to either though….

Where did you get that idea? Maybe he just wants to contribute to his faith community or knows leadership has struggles getting callings filled and if he covered one area, that frees up others for another one.

Given there are many members who have extended family very active in the Church who might react in negative ways, even extremely, I can see how the majority still prefer to be anonymous (I have a few myself I keep my mouth shut around and hope they never come across my comments online because I am pretty sure they would misunderstand and take things the wrong way as well as argue with me about things they understood correctly because they are buying into a lot of conspiracy nonsense). Plus speaking negatively about a former employer may cause a potential employer to think twice about hiring someone even if they agree with the candidate in that particular case (if the candidate is willing to trash their former employer because of something they see as wrong, it’s more likely they will be willing to do the same in the future).

What about afterwards though, those that had been fired? Also surveys could be done anonymously. And actual quotes from what he said about DEI, etc. would be helpful.

I can see him disliking, even hating some aspects of BYU (I did when I was there), but hating BYU (do you mean the collection of BYUs or BYU Provo or BYUI?) seems a big stretch for someone working at CES. It seems unlikely he could function in his job effectively or that top church leaders would have been okay with having someone who hated BYU at its helm.

The ones I have heard all were.

I have heard of that happening before (sometimes it seems the bishop is overreacting, other times I want to hear the bishop’s version as I pick up hints of something more going on). I wish there was a way to take into account bishops’ biases, but don’t see how if you do anything more detailed than a temple recommend.

But being a hard worker and doing difficult things while admirable isn’t the same thing as being brave or going against the grain when it’s what the people who pay your paycheck and the majority of people around you want you to do, even if it upsets the people you fire/force out, especially if the other alternative is a lower paycheck or even getting fired, contract not renewed for yourself. Not saying that means he wasn’t doing good things either. I just think it exaggerates that one idea, bravery, though I do view it as brave these days to step into any role that brings you into the public eye because you will get harassed more than the typical harassment that happens to everyone online imo (I got a semideath threat and quite a few “you are going to hell”, “Devil’s spawn” from a few atypical members just because I wouldn’t let them use excessive caps or other things that made it difficult for others to read as well as getting too personal when I was a mod in ZLMB, it’s ridiculous what people think they have a right and duty to say to others). Then that hardly seems like going against the grain rather than just digging deeper the ruts in the path that are already there (not using ruts negatively here, just to emphasize it was a familiar path).

Do CES leaders hang out on a daily basis with the rest of academia? Seems like it’s more likely he is surrounded by other CES leaders and employees as well as interacting more with church leaders, though I can see him attending academic conferences/gatherings perhaps, but how often is that? Their job security doesn’t depend on the opinion of other university systems, but church leadership which likely has a very different standard. Now if he was likely to work outside the Church after his stint working for the Church, that would be risky, but how often does that happen? What typically happens with CES leaders who enter at the level he did? (Serious questions because I only know of those who have then gotten called to church full time callings, but there must be others)? Which my guess is still the minority at BYU given what professors I know.

It has always been so, hasn’t it?

I remember this being talked about, but not sure if the policy has been written up. My memory says “likely”. I don’t trust my memory. Anyone know and if so, a link? This is concerning to me if so, but something could easily be taken out of context, misunderstood with all the baggage this topic is currently carrying, so I need to see quotes. (I know there may not be any available, not saying you should get them, though I wouldn’t mind it ).

Sorry, but I am not understanding this. Could you clarify please?

I don’t subscribe even for free unless it’s something I must. Perhaps you could provide the names for alternative research? Please? (Ignore if someone else does)