Calm

2 minutes ago, PortalToParis said:

While she was sealed to and supported by Heber C. Kimball after the martyrdom, I don’t think she ever adopted the doctrine of polygamy or lived in it with Heber C. Kimball. She was a very independent-minded woman who had turned down more than one offer of marriage, working as a single governess for several years before eventually marrying Hyrum at the age of 36. https://www.ldsliving.com/the-indomitable-faith-of-mary-fielding-smith-how-hyrums-martyrdom-changed-her-forever/s/90736 After the martyrdom she had Hyrum’s six children from his first marriage as well as her own Joseph F. Smith and Martha Ann to take care of. She never lived with Heber and Vilate Kimball until she was dying from illness. I don’t see the arrangement with Heber C. Kimball as anything more than a destitute widow of young children receiving living support. It wasn’t until she was on her deathbed that the big Section 132 reveal happened, which I think gives strong evidence that she was not someone who would have endorsed it.

Why did she go west and not denounce it then?

7 minutes ago, PortalToParis said:

think it to be perfectly possible that Hyrum’s brother-in-law happened to be one of those “foolish men”, despite him being Hyrum’s wife’s brother.

So why didn’t Hyrum correct his false understanding?

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

I saw someone else on facebook really pulling for a Spanish Fork temple. It does seem like the perfect place for another one.

Preferably within walking distance of my son’s house or better yet mine (have it in Mapleton instead)

23 minutes ago, bluebell said:

 I was surprised that Lehi is getting one since they already have Mt. Timpanogas and them the new Orem temple right there too.

Payson is packed much of the time from what I hear, so my family was hoping one for Spanish Fork, lol.  They will be annoyed the north valley got yet another one.  

16 minutes ago, why me said:

In general. Usually people attracted to the same sex have just left and at times their relatives too can leave. But no one to my knowledge discriminated against them in church. I don't see it as a big concern for the members that have been involved with at churches.

Are you not aware of the excommunication policy for apostasy for participating in a gay marriage that was in force back in 2015 for a few years before it was rescinded? Do you not see that as discrimination (whether or not it was appropriate discrimination, I don’t see how you could say it wasn’t discrimination)?

8 minutes ago, why me said:

However who actually cares what a member is wearing these days. There are a lot of musts but are many members do all the musts? I think that many members are just trying to survive life these days.

You haven’t taken the time to listen to podcasts on this, have you?

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Some members of the Church are involved with these efforts.

CFR please

1 hour ago, why me said:

I have never heard of any discrimination

Ever or just recently? As in the last few years?

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Here we go. Here is the response on garments.

Sister Dennis spoke about them yesterday as well.

3 hours ago, Teancum said:

Does it matter who wrote the D&C Section that was in the 1835 D&C?  The book was voted on and accepted by the church.  Seems like the marriage section was a valid as the rest of the book.

Surely you know by now details matter to me for their own sake.  Joseph approved it for publishing whether he wrote it or not, so that is not an issue for me.  I am just curious and want to get Portal’s view correct.

Bernard!  Lovely to see you!

15 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Some are doing the passport thing.  Most men just can't afford that option.   So they just stay home and are just not dating at all.  That is why there are lots of videos on youtube of women complaining about where have all the men gone.   They are still around.  They are not dead.  They just are not apparently going to deal with the mindset of many younger women today.  They don't see the benefits being greater than the risks and they have their porn which is good enough for them.   We will see the day when half of all 50 year old women in the country will be childless and single.   It is coming.

If men refuse to grow up and want a mommy as well as a wife, that is on them.

19 minutes ago, bluebell said:

The melody is not pretty and it goes on for 147 verses.

It is a drone…

4 hours ago, Peacefully said:

but in Texas we sing it with the emphasis on the second syllable like the word “on” and I still do that sometimes to this day, lol. 

It seems to be the more common pronunciation outside the Church…or at least how I hear it most often.  It sounds forced to me, like they are unfamiliar with the word, lol.  It is me unfamiliar with how everyone else says it instead.

iirc, the first time I really paid attention to it was in the Matrix movies and my brain went to laughing smugly how the writers were trying to be religious and spiritual while being clueless, likely atheists and them even making a commentary on religion taken too far…all because of an allegedly mispronounced word.  Too funny.

4 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

It starts:

"En el pueblo de Sion, donde todos Santos son..."

Google translate:

"In the town of Zion, where all are holy..."

That makes more sense to me than Deseret…

5 hours ago, bluebell said:

I hope we lose true to the faith as well. The whole part where you yell out yes and no just sounds dumb and it doesn’t work at all for converts.

YES!

3 hours ago, PortalToParis said:

I don't advocate for Mormon factions to come together as we and they are now, we have a lot of disharmony with eachother. That's why I suggested it be a way-in-the future thing if it happened, and only if there's first a necessary amount of false teachings and practices that are rooted out. I think the Lord could definitely make it part of His plan in redeeming Zion.

I can see some of the schisms being better at practicing certain aspects of the faith and then bringing that experience back into the Church to enrich the main branch.  I have a hard time seeing them as equal in authority (but that is likely bias from the faith I grew up in and still believe) and the fundamentalist ones that have extensive records of abuse seem to have gone too far off line, but I can get behind the idea of a family where some members have wandered and learned much while doing so coming back home and becoming one again and the core of the family that remained holding on too hard to some traditions now being able to shed those traditions that held them back because of the influx.

19 minutes ago, manol said:

Song about a transformational spiritual experience.  The uplifting energy in the music is incredible.  Turn on closed captioning for lyrics.  Imo this belongs in the new hymnbook:

 

I can definitely get behind this one.  Thanks for the video as I have never watched it being performed.

37 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

When this lot of women get older, not many will have husbands, not many kids and they will get into their retirement years and be pretty lonely.  

While some women will be lonely, others will shine.

My mom wondered if her dad died when he did (right when he retired of a heart attack) because he was giving his wife the life she really wanted.  Grandma loved living alone and having a life full of clubs and church and getting together with her friends in similar situations.  And this is a woman who grew up in an era where family was everything…and it was for her too, only it was her sisters who lived the same life she did that was her family core.

3 hours ago, PortalToParis said:

The priesthood is meant to be for blessing the lives of others, not as a personal status symbol or a sign of worthiness. I've had several direct experiences in which I've received priesthood blessings from LDS men that were very, very much inspired, and even one miraculous healing for myself. One of those inspired priesthood blessings was from someone who was not temple worthy at the time, and who I also know was in certain ways at that very same time practicing a certain degree of "unrighteous dominion" within his family. I think the degree of blessing received from a priesthood blessing perhaps has more to do with the faith and worthiness of the recipient than the giver. 

 

I am out of points and may not remember to get back to give you ones, so I want you to know I appreciate you sharing your reasoning, etc.  It is very interesting and worthwhile to read for me.

5 hours ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

The need to defend the practice is no longer quite so close to us or to our leaders so I think that we will be looking more at the doctrine of polygamy as a legacy of a certain period of the Church that is far less relevant to the membership today. I think that the need to defend the practice shrinks every year.

I remember my grandmother talking about her Aunt Polly when I was younger, who I found out later was a plural wife.  I wish I had a chance to ask her why she never talked about her when I was older.  That fact just dawned on me…it would have been probably around 1970.  I wonder if she started to feel more unsettled about it having lived in California for most of her adult life where she would have gotten odd looks from her nonmember friends and most of her member friends as well.

Do we have data on how many families live in rental properties over the decades tied to location, by chance?

I think living close to universities in several places where I would see kids playing outside of apartments and in wards that had subsidized housing has made it appear to me that renting is not seen as a major obstacle to starting a family.  I would like to see how wrong I am on that, lol

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

It's a clickbait title.  Makes more people watch it.

A better match from the video is atypical or counterintuitive, but neither are as grabbing, lol

I am starting the day out of points…

I am impressed, Ken, thanks!

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'll take both! Good for Utah, it is a pretty great state! No matter what others say. 

It comes with religious qualifications, so properly called compromises imo.