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Calm

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Posts posted by Calm

  1. 2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

    You figure that's true for women and not for men?  I dunno.  When I show feelings, there's hardly a human witness who doesn't pass some sort of judgment...

    Quote

    Consider the ‘double-bind’ or ‘assertiveness penalty’ facing women aspiring to leadership. Studies show that when women exhibit stereotypically masculine traits commonly associated with leadership like assertiveness, they are less-liked when compared with men exhibiting the same traits. In a 2008 study published in Psychological Science, men received a boost in their perceived status after expressing anger. In contrast, “women who expressed anger were consistently accorded lower status and lower wages, and were seen as less competent.” Another study showed women’s perceived deserved compensation dropped by 35%, twice as much as men’s dropped when equally aggressive in workplace communication. Because likability can be an even more important factor than competence for getting hired, women who breach gender stereotypes may jeopardise their career prospects.

    Assertiveness backlash places women in a tenuous position. On the one hand, to emerge as a leader, women must adopt traits consistent with leadership stereotypes, i.e. act more stereotypically masculine. But, when women do act more assertively, they breach feminine stereotypes and suffer a likeability penalty that, in turn, limits their professional success. Not only do women need to work harder to be assessed at the same level of competence as men, they also need to work differently—treading a fine line between masculinity and femininity. Asking for a promotion, offering unsolicited opinions, challenging the status quo, negotiating for a raise, or speaking up about concerns may help a male employee get ahead, but a female employee could easily end up labelled as “bossy” or worse for the exact same behaviour.

    https://cultureplusconsulting.com/2018/03/10/gender-bias-work-assertiveness-double-bind/
     

    Let me know if you want the actual studies…

    The workplace is the easiest place to study, but I have seen studies in other contexts.

    Women are also typically viewed as more emotional than men, but this is likely incorrect.  They are more emotionally expressive, but experience emotion similar to men.

    https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2F0022-3514.74.3.686

  2. 2 hours ago, pogi said:

    Why else are we taught that men preside in the home?

    Aren’t all men seen as appropriately presiding in homes even when the family are not members of the Church based on the interpretation of Genesis?

    Quote

    To the woman he said, 'I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.'

     

  3. 30 minutes ago, smac97 said:

    A Latter-day Saint publicly encouraging other Latter-day Saints to misappropriate the Church's sacred convocation would, for me, be an indicator of angry intent.  And activism.

    Publicly disparaging the Church as "an environment that so obviously favors sons {over daughters}" seems to be an indicator of angry intent.

    Publicly encouraging other Latter-day Saints to "{s}end leaders a message" by "step{ing} out of line" and not being "well-behaved" in a church setting seems to be an indicator of angry intent.  And activism.

    Maybe if you were to act that way, you would have to be angry, but I can imagine myself doing so because I strongly felt the need for change and was concerned if change wasn’t sooner rather than later, many in the faith would be harmed while still recognizing the Church got to this state not out of maliciousness or a desire to oppress women, but because of misguided expectations of men and women, so there is no need for me to be angry about it even if I were to be passionate about bringing change.

    She expressed her feelings as “weariness”, which does imply frustration to me, but is not usually associated with anger (it takes a lot of energy to be angry).

    I think the “well behaved” comment does not imply her being angry or encouraging women in general to get angry, but rather it’s encouraging women to control their fear, to be brave enough to be different.

    Quote

    I know it can be scary to speak up or step out of line at church. But to quote Pulitzer Prize-winning historian and Latter-day Saint Laurel Thatcher Ulrich, “Well-behaved women seldom make history.”

     

  4. 3 hours ago, bluebell said:

    Or does empowerment come solely by being the one telling others what to do and when to do it? Does the gender of the boss have a measurable impact on the empowerment of the people being bossed?  

    I think empowerment comes not only in exercising power, but in understanding and being familiar with how power works…as in someone can be appointed a boss, but if they are clueless on what that job is, they may feel more helpless than empowered.

    And while someone may not have the decision making power themselves, they may feel somewhat empowered if they are familiar with whatever process is used in applying that power because they will have better ways to predict what direction will come from those in power and even more important, knowing how a hierarchy functions, including the unwritten rules, increases one’s ability to influence that hierarchy or at least the small part of it they can directly interact with.  Having confidence that one could influence if one chose empowers even if one does not make the choice to do so.  

    When one knows one will never be able to hold a position, one will likely be less interested in learning what that position does because they may perceive no need to invest the effort.  A boy or young man or even an adult male (assuming they still have classes in PH on how things operate in the church) who imagines they might be at least in a bishopric, if unlikely to be a bishop, some day will likely pay closer attention when taught and ask more questions about the calling than a girl, young woman, or woman who will never be called to any position in a bishopric.

    Also important is being present where the decisions are being made.  Greater understanding will come from being aware of the behind the scenes as well as the very important opportunities of being able influence the decision, sometimes by just asking a question in a certain way, but also volunteering an opinion, providing useful info, etc.  In the past, women leaders were less likely to be present in most decision making discussions in the Church.  And girls and women weren’t given much, if any practical knowledge with how networking occurs among priesthood leaders.  There may not have been much there to learn, but if you are not present where the work happens, you don’t even know what you don’t know and that is disempowering.

    There has been a real effort by the Church with its councils to include women…which educates them more in the process even if not making the final decision themselves as well as giving them more opportunities to provide input in more than just their specific callings.  These women may then go and be a source of instruction to other women.  Knowing that is happening, even if happening to a woman besides oneself, can be empowering for a woman, imo.

    I remember one of the men who was involved in forming the Family Proclamation answering criticisms that women weren’t consulted as part of the process attempting to correct that impression by providing a few women’s names they had discussed the Proclamation with.  Problem was none of them were actual female church leaders.  They were women who just happened to be there for other reasons whose opinions were trusted, but who did not have callings that gave them the right to ask and receive revelation for directing the membership of the Church as a whole or at least half of the adult population.  There is something very wrong, imo, in believing that asking the opinion a couple of women who were conveniently there was even close to sufficiently seeking out the appropriate input from women, imo.

    I doubt is such neglect would ever happen today, though it might happen at local levels with leaders who refuse to take advantage of the council system to get a variety of input from the appropriate leaders.

  5. 2 hours ago, bluebell said:

    Pres Oaks:  “Church callings are always temporary, but family relationships are permanent”

    I disagree to a certain extent for this.  Once a child is an adult, much of the authority that governs their life passes to the child from the parent.  A father does not have the God-given authority to insist revelation he believes he has received to supersede the choice, even if non revelatory, of the adult child.

    So the relationship may be permanent in terms of there is always a relationship there if family isn’t dysfunctional, but the nature of the relationship changes over time extensively.

  6. 4 hours ago, pogi said:

    Do you agree that the Church tops the list of church's for power and authority given to women?

    God’s priesthood authority that he has chosen to assign to members of the Church of Jesus Christ in all dispensations, yes.

    There may be other forms of his authority that he has not given us, but has given to other individuals or organizations though to fulfill what is necessary for the progression of humanity.

    There are other forms of authority though, including in the Church. Women in the Church have little to none of some of those forms.  A lot of men don’t either, but they have the potential to receive such or have received such even if they don’t currently hold it and often even if they never hold such a calling, they receive training and instruction about the use of such authorities that women have never received.

    Quote

    What kind of authority is it they hold if it can only be exercised under the authority of a man? 

    Much the same most men in the Church hold.

  7. 1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

    So maybe give women some authority that cannot be overruled? 

    Aren’t all the men in the same situation though except maybe the prophet?  Even there, they operate as a unified quorum or not at all.

    So I don’t think “can’t be overruled” is appropriate, though I agree with what you actually mean I think and that women have callings that don’t technically need approval by men for it to go through even if men have oversight over them.  A bishop may choose to give the women leaders of the ward the power to do stuff without him doublechecking, but the next bishop can change it to they have to run everything by him…at least anything that costs money or that he could track by looking at building schedules, emails that get sent out with announcements. 

  8. 2 hours ago, Rain said:

    The youth in our ward have been giving them for a few months (They give both prayers every 2-3 weeks). I figured it was just something in our ward.  Maybe it's being encouraged everywhere.

    They have youth team teaching our family history class, helping with the tech stuff.  I thought that was brilliant.  They are also helping with being the chorister.  I haven’t been on a Sunday where they gave prayers, but wouldn’t be surprised if it was happening.  The ward is making a strong effort to give youth meaningful roles, which I fully back.  Been very please to see it.

  9. 43 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

    think the thrill of rock climbing, hang gliding, and all that physical and somewhat dangerous stuff will lose their thrill entirely, without the fear of death or grievous bodily harm looming (resurrected beings don't die, get injured, or get sick). 

    I don’t want to do it for the thrill, i never have, I want the feel of the movement, to see the altered perspectives.  I would rather there be no fear so I can immerse myself in my surroundings and the movement.  It is the same with dance, gymnastics, fencing, horseback riding.  Fear is distracting.  I will be grateful when it is gone.

  10. 4 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

    just frustrate her, if I called, especially if she does have dementia? I don't know...things like that go on in my head. 

    You and me should go to therapy together, lol.  You and I?

  11. She is probably living with her nephew (I think) now as she was going downhill last I heard.  Another board member contacted him, iirc.  I am rotten calling people on the phone, makes me so nervous that I let others have the chance.  
     

    Though it’s been several years, so she might be happily reunited with her husband.

  12. Never mind, Google comes to the rescue again (I think it likes me as it almost always finds stuff I look for first or second attempt).

    https://www.facebook.com/IrishDusty/

    I didn’t know him besides the posts and I am flashbacking to my terminally shy days right now, so someone else ask him!

  13. 11 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

    Got caught up in reading that thread, I joined the board in 2012, so was able to catch Dusty when he was making a comeback to the church. All those posters of long ago, I wonder where they are now? 

    Btw, I remember facebook messaging him a few years ago asking how Garden Girl was, she's as you know his cousin I believe. Anyway, now I can't remember what he said, I went to FB and put in Dusty Smith and can't locate him to read my FB message with him. 

    Is there a way to search for your old posts on FB if they are not on your profile, but someone else’s?  Or maybe old notifications that someone responded if you remember around when you did it and have too much free time you need to fill by searching.

  14. 17 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

    Ah, missed that. 

    Watched the video, and he said that his second screen name was Country Boy. Not sure about the space, but I searched on "country", and 2 members but not him.

    I remembered that name and actually posted it above, except then I went and looked for it and couldn’t find it, so thought I was wrong.  I think he changed it again…but maybe he asked for it to be deleted as too much personal info was on it.

  15. 3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

    Where'd you get that? You must have saved it off somewhere, because the screen name I Am So Torn gets 0 results in search.

    “I am so torn” is the name of the thread, Stevedallas is the one who started it.

    I searched on dallas and then went to his profile and looked at his posts hoping to see one about Garden Girl and came across that one.

  16. 3 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

    OK, I finally beat my head against the wall long enough to come up with the guy. I believe his name is Steve Smith, aka "Dusty". He came on into the Social Hall a loooonnnggg time ago talking about how he was starting to come back to church. Later he forgot he posted using his original screen name and came on with another screen name. I don't remember either of them. 

    He's in this Saints Unscripted video:

     

    Thank you!  I hate not finding things I look for, whether on the shelf or in my brain.

  17. Someone needs to teach the kid some solid doctrine. ;) 

    https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/77?lang=eng

     

    Quote

    1–4, Beasts have spirits and will dwell in eternal felicity…

    They are limited to four individual beasts, which were shown to John, to represent the glory of the classes of beings in their destined order or sphere of creation, in the enjoyment of their eternal felicity.

    I am not sure the verse actually means what the summary says it means (figurative beasts may represent a different class of being than mortal animals), but why not go for it with kids.

  18. 19 minutes ago, SteveO said:

    To my knowledge, I don’t know personally, or am related to anyone on this board.  

    I got you mixed up with another poster for some reason, maybe his actual name is Steve.

    added:

    Quote

    That's a different Steve.

    So I am right about “Steve”?  What was his alias?  Didn’t he have a couple, one as an exmember and then he changed it when he came back to the Church, iirc.

  19. 1 hour ago, morgan.deane said:

    but I feel compelled to at least try. Its tough to even describe so I'm sorry if this was all over the place.

    You conveyed it quite well.  I experienced the invisibility as a teen and college student.  Went to a couple of dances, but was never asked to dance.  We were assigned blind dates for one dance, I got all dressed up and saw my roommates go off with theirs one by one…mine never came.

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