Senator

Clear as mud

Save your judgements ZS, they are not helpful.

Even if the pronouncement is from the will of the priesthood holder and not from the spirit? So we are simply dealing with the distinction between pronouncing a blessing, and requesting a blessing? Both of which, I think you will agree, are predicated on the will of the Lord to fulfill. Elder Oaks quote, which you supplied, indicates this. So, while I can understand there is a difference in the "feel" to the different verbiage, I think the outcome is the same.

Thank you for being able to articulate this. I obviously haven't been able to. We are presented with a concept of priesthood power, which is ethereal, "paranormal", non-descript, and needs belief, yet come under correction when we fail to understand it. It's a real struggle for some in faith systems when the professed ideals don't always equate to our lived experience.

Geez, you should write a book! I would read it.

Sounds like a worthy practice!

I've come to doubt that

No longer interested. It's fine. I do not need you or Pres. Nelson to agree with. Let it be

Yes

What way? What are you talking about? I administer it according to the 6 steps you listed. You and Pres. Nelson seem to have a problem with how some interpret #5. That's all.

Pff, we're not communicating Best leave it.

Sure Again, we are throwing darts while blindfolded without knowing what was actually said.

If he stated the priesthood authority and named the child he's good. Whatever else he may say "according to the spirit" is icing.

5. Gives a blessing to the child as guided by the Spirit. Maybe the young father gave the blessing as he felt guided by the Spirit. But apparently according to Pres. Nelson, that didn't cut the mustard.

That's a tall order!

I agree to the naming part, but the blessing part? That's where we disagree

Hmmmm Sound like Elder Oaks and Elder Nelson need to get together and hash it out:)

So what if he didn't use those exact words, but used other ways to express his thoughts? Sorry, sir that's not a blessing... The problem I have, is that if we start requiring certain verbiage, you set up the blessing giver with undue expectations. I guess I'm a little resistant to the notion of "you didn't say the right thing", because of my past experience of being the one giving the blessing. I have people close to me that have repeatedly requested blessings, only to finally respond that they are frustrated that they are not getting the "blessing" that they are needing or expecting. My response? Well, maybe you need to go find someone else to give them a blessing and say the things they want to hear.

I'm not speaking about the category of scripted prayers and ordinances. They have their place, and that is fine. We are talking about the unscripted blessings given during a baby blessing, blessing of the sick, setting apart etc. CV75, I love ya, but at times you tend to wax long in wordy abstracts to where you totally lose me. Maybe a left/right brain struggle.

It almost sounds as if he is calling for a scripted liturgy for priesthood blessings. I would rather it be spiritually organic.

I agree. I suppose the “blessing” might have only contained expressions of love and gratitude for the child. Otherwise I find it hard to conceive of a prayer that doesn’t contain some request or admonition in behalf of receiver.

I’m failing to see the distinction. it’s six of one, half a dozen of another 🤷‍♂️ And if I had to choose between the two, I would trust the latter more. So I guess I do see a distinction 😂

So really it comes down to whether the blessing is being inspired by the Spirit. What words one uses or the phraseology make no difference. So then whatever is said or pronounced is the will of God and a "correct" blessing. So really Pres. Nelson was critiquing the young father for an uninspired blessing. I struggle with that notion.

So its just semantics?

Clearly? I get what you are saying, but if testimony meeting is to be " I know this church is true, I know Joseph Smith was a prophet of God. I know God lives, and Jesus is my savior" repeated for 45 minutes, then what's the point? Personally I'll pass on that kind of meeting. I want to hear the "why" to all those statements. (or even the "why not" if someone is searching)