Need Help With Uninformed Black African Member

[Johnnie Cake]

I have an new FB friend who reached out ot me in response to a post I made on another board regarding the + and -'s of seving a mission. He is an 18 year old prospective missionary of African decent. We had a good positive conversation regarding missions and I beleive I was fair and honest...and encouraged him to serve if that was his desire....but also told him that ultimatly the choice is his and his alone.

He then asked me if he could ask me a question...he then asked me if it was true that Blacks were not allowed to hold the priesthood at one time. I was dumbfounded that he had not been taught from his youth of this difficulty. I confirmed that they had in fact been banned prior to 1978. He said that he stumbled on this information while doing some research for a church talk and had asked his bishop and Stake President for clarification. They condemend him for seeking out anti-Mormon lies and told him that it was all a lie that had been made against the church by anti-mormons. I was flabergasted by their ignorance on this issue. I do not know the race of his Bishop and Stake President.

When I confirmed that his leaders were misinformed...that Blacks of African decent and only african decent had been banned from the holding the priesthood from 1845 to 1978 he was gobsmacked as to why the church would hide this informatin from him...a life long believing member.

He would like some reliable reading material on the history of the ban and the reasons behind it. In my desire to be fair and balanced I'm coming here to ask for material, articles etc that I can pass along to him. I will not accept or pass long anything that is not honest and truthful regarding this difficult issue...so please just offer honest truthful imformation. Itsn't there a good article in Dialogue from some time ago that was influencial with President Kimball on this subject?

Thanks for your assistance

Edited June 17, 2013 by Johnnie Cake

[Nevo]

I'd recommend http://www.blacklds.org/ as a good starting point.

There is also Edward L. Kimball's BYU Studies article, "Spencer W. Kimball and the Revelation on the Priesthood."

.

Edited June 17, 2013 by Nevo

[Johnnie Cake]

I'd recommend http://www.blacklds.org/ as a good starting point.

Thanks I'll cerainly pass that link along

[mfbukowski]

Let it be known that Johnnie Cake is not friendly to the LDS cause, if I recall correctly.

If I am wrong, I apologize

[thesometimesaint]

You can refer him to the many faithful members of the Church whom happen to be black.

You can also go to the Bible and see where God, for his own purposes, limited his Priesthood to select groups.

It is not true that the ban was limited to all blacks. President David O. McKay made great strides with the black people of Polynesia.

I would be surprised if your young man was given an in-depth explanation of the bans' history. That was 34 years ago and the ban was lifted without a hitch.

There is no need to go the Anti-Mormons, and I would highly recommend he do not. The Church has its own website dedicated to it. Further many black members also have websites about it.

[mfbukowski]

I attended this fireside and have met Marvin Perkins on several occasions.

http://www.blacklds.org/Perkins

http://www.blacklds.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/01/How-to-reach-African-Americans.pdf

Edited June 17, 2013 by mfbukowski

[mfbukowski]

I have an new FB friend who reached out ot me in response to a post I made on another board regarding the + and -'s of seving a mission.

He has perhaps moved into stealth mode trying to "help prospective missionaries" on the board that has been discussed elsewhere

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/61036-the-latest-anti-mormon-deception-futuremissionarycom/

Edited June 17, 2013 by mfbukowski

[Johnnie Cake]

Let it be known that Johnnie Cake is not friendly to the LDS cause, if I recall correctly.

If I am wrong, I apologize

Ummmm....I am no longer a member of the chruch, I do not believe that the church is what it claims to be...but both my wife and children remain active believing members of the church. to say that I am unfriendly to the LDS church is...interesting. I ask questions and I doubt its claims...but I try to be fair and honest...

I seriously doubt someone who is unfriendly to the church would seek assistance for a young black african seeking answers to this difficult question here were my desire to undermine his faith. Were that my deisre I would merely direct him to an internet sight that can't be named here for answers.

I'm pained for this young man...I feel a connection in his expereicne to that of mine...when I first learned of difficult issues...I believe that he is entitled to the truth...he has been misled too long by those he has placed his trust in

[Johnnie Cake]

You can refer him to the many faithful members of the Church whom happen to be black.

You can also go to the Bible and see where God, for his own purposes, limited his Priesthood to select groups.

It is not true that the ban was limited to all blacks. President David O. McKay made great strides with the black people of Polynesia.

I would be surprised if your young man was given an in-depth explanation of the bans' history. That was 34 years ago and the ban was lifted without a hitch.

There is no need to go the Anti-Mormons, and I would highly recommend he do not. The Church has its own website dedicated to it. Further many black members also have websites about it.

I told him that the banned was limited to ONLY blacks of African decent not all blacks...this desturbed him greatly...

[bu11fr0g]

Let it be known that Johnnie Cake is not friendly to the LDS cause, if I recall correctly.

If I am wrong, I apologize

You are not wrong at all: "I recently had one of my younger grandchildren ask me completely out of left field..."Grandpa, Is the Book of Mormon True?" My personal view is that the book is a 100% human product." is one of his more benign statements. Although people can have any view they want, Johnnie Cake's posts are not balanced.

[mfbukowski]

You are not wrong at all: "I recently had one of my younger grandchildren ask me completely out of left field..."Grandpa, Is the Book of Mormon True?" My personal view is that the book is a 100% human product." is one of his more benign statements. Although people can have any view they want, Johnnie Cake's posts are not balanced.

Again-

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/61036-the-latest-anti-mormon-deception-futuremissionarycom/

[Johnnie Cake]

He has perhaps moved into stealth mode trying to "help prospective missionaries" on the board that has been discussed elsewhere

http://www.mormondia...emissionarycom/

Oh brother...a conspiracy around every corner...

[Johnnie Cake]

You are not wrong at all: "I recently had one of my younger grandchildren ask me completely out of left field..."Grandpa, Is the Book of Mormon True?" My personal view is that the book is a 100% human product." is one of his more benign statements. Although people can have any view they want, Johnnie Cake's posts are not balanced.

Well I've obviously come to the wrong place in seeking help for this young man...my bad in thinking that the posters here might give a damn...I guess I'll seek assistane elsewhere.

There are a few posters here who know me personally in real life. They know who I am , know my history and service to the church and know that I am a good decent person. I am sorry that some of your bias's towards who you think I am...has tainted your opportunity to help a hurting member of the church you all claim to be true...

Edited June 17, 2013 by Johnnie Cake

[Hamilton Porter]

There's gotta be a better way to word the title. Are you from Mississippi? Did you grow up in the Jim Crow era?

Perhaps, "Prospective Missionary has question on priesthood ban?" might be better?

Edited June 17, 2013 by Hamilton Porter

[thesometimesaint]

Well I've obviously come to the wrong place in seeking help for this young man...my bad in thinking that the posters here might give a damn...I guess I'll seek assistane elsewhere.

There are a few posters here who know me personally in real life. They know who I am , know my history and service to the church and know that I am a good decent person. I am sorry that some of your bias's towards who you think I am...has tainted your opportunity to help a hurting member of the church you all claim to be true...

I obvious know nothing about you other than from what you post. I prefer to deal with the issues and not the personalities.

So we're now to fault for your incomplete and misleading answers? It was equivalent to the question "Have you stopped beating your spouse; a simple yes or no answer will suffice".

[cinepro]

There's gotta be a better way to word the title. Are you from Mississippi? Did you grow up in the Jim Crow era?

Perhaps, "Prospective Missionary has question on priesthood ban?" might be better?

What's the preferred title for people of that descent this week? It wasn't a Priesthood Ban against Eskimos or Mexicans.

[cinepro]

He said that he stumbled on this information while doing some research for a church talk and had asked his bishop and Stake President for clarification. They condemend him for seeking out anti-Mormon lies and told him that it was all a lie that had been made against the church by anti-mormons. I was flabergasted by their ignorance on this issue. I do not know the race of his Bishop and Stake President.

With all due respect, I find this very, very hard to believe. Are you saying that an 18 year old black member of the Church didn't know about the priesthood ban at all, and when he approached two different leaders about it, they both told him that the ban was an "anti-Mormon lie"? Between the three of them, none of them were even aware of Official Declaration 2 in the back of their Doctrine and Covenants, which they presumably carry with them to Church every week? And unless you have a very young Stake President, he would have at least been a child during that historic day in 1978, and would surely remember it!

If your friend is just learning about this for the first time, then he should honestly just read the wikipedia article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia....e_and_Mormonism

In 30 minutes, he can have a very good historical foundation upon which to ask questions.

But the best course of action, if the wisdom of the message board is to be consulted, is for your friend to create an account here and tell his own story and get his own advice.

Edited June 17, 2013 by cinepro

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

With all due respect, I find this very, very hard to believe. Are you saying that an 18 year old black member of the Church didn't know about the priesthood ban at all, and when he approached two different leaders about it, they both told him that the ban was an "anti-Mormon lie"? Between the three of them, none of them were even aware of Official Declaration 2 in the back of their Doctrine and Covenants, which they presumably carry with them to Church every week? And unless you have a very young Stake President, he would have at least been a child during that historic day in 1978, and would surely remember it!

If your friend is just learning about this for the first time, then he should honestly just read the wikipedia article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia....e_and_Mormonism

In 30 minutes, he can have a very good historical foundation upon which to ask questions.

But the best course of action, if the wisdom of the message board is to be consulted, is for your friend to create an account here and tell his own story and get his own advice.

I concour. Something smeels about the OP's story. I just don't buy that they told him that it was an "Anti-Mormon lie" specific to the priesthood ban. Edited June 17, 2013 by Mola Ram Suda Ram

[Hamilton Porter]

What's the preferred title for people of that descent this week? It wasn't a Priesthood Ban against Eskimos or Mexicans.

Are you from, such as, South Carolina? Did you grow up in the Jim Crow era?

[mfbukowski]

Well I've obviously come to the wrong place in seeking help for this young man...my bad in thinking that the posters here might give a damn...I guess I'll seek assistane elsewhere.

There are a few posters here who know me personally in real life. They know who I am , know my history and service to the church and know that I am a good decent person. I am sorry that some of your bias's towards who you think I am...has tainted your opportunity to help a hurting member of the church you all claim to be true...

If you are for real you already have what you need in what has been posted.

[cinepro]

Are you from, such as, South Carolina? Did you grow up in the Jim Crow era?

No.

As others have pointed out, the ban wasn't against all "black" people, it was only against those of presumed "African" descent.

So specifying that the person under discussion is both "black" and of presumed "African" descent is entirely appropriate in a discussion of the LDS priesthood ban. Not sure why that's a touchy subject for you.

[mfbukowski]

With all due respect, I find this very, very hard to believe. Are you saying that an 18 year old black member of the Church didn't know about the priesthood ban at all, and when he approached two different leaders about it, they both told him that the ban was an "anti-Mormon lie"? Between the three of them, none of them were even aware of Official Declaration 2 in the back of their Doctrine and Covenants, which they presumably carry with them to Church every week? And unless you have a very young Stake President, he would have at least been a child during that historic day in 1978, and would surely remember it!

If your friend is just learning about this for the first time, then he should honestly just read the wikipedia article on the subject:

http://en.wikipedia....e_and_Mormonism

In 30 minutes, he can have a very good historical foundation upon which to ask questions.

But the best course of action, if the wisdom of the message board is to be consulted, is for your friend to create an account here and tell his own story and get his own advice.

Dang.

Mark this day on the calendar. I actually agree with cinepro. I must be getting dotty in my old age.

[ERayR]

Johnny is skilled in sophistry and subterfuge.

[stemelbow]

For what it's worth (I realize no one here really knows me either) I know Johnnie Cake and I tend to believe what he has posted. He's been very honest with me and since I was young he has been someone I've looked up to. I realize he's out of teh Church and has posted some provoking comments here but I don't think he has any desire to cause this 18 year old any trouble.

I rather enjoyed the information in David O McKay and the Rise of Modern Mormonism helpful along with what's been mentioned above:

http://www.amazon.com/David-McKay-Rise-Modern-Mormonism/dp/0874808227/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371495250&sr=8-1&keywords=david+o+mckay

[ERayR]

Johnny is skilled in sophistry and subterfuge.