Divorce Statistics And Sealings

[rongo]

What are the best sources for statistics on how the divorce rate of LDS who are sealed in the temple compares with

a) society at large

b) the divorce rate among the general membership of the Church (i.e., all 14 million, including inactives and non-self-identifying Mormons.

I'm guessing that there are no official statistics (how could there be?), but I'm hoping for better than blog chatter as far as sources go.

Thanks!

[Questing Beast]

I look around myself. Temple divorces are a bit less than "civic" divorces. I don't know where the stat originates from, but I believe that c. 25% of first time marriages end in divorce; somewhat over 50% of second time marriages end in divorce, and c. 80% of remarriages three times or more end in divorce. Mormons are not significantly different from this today, although several decades ago temple sealing marriages only failed c. 10%. Those are the numbers I still carry around in my gourd. Somebody can correct me....

[Okrahomer]

There was an earlier thread that touched on this subject. Some of the sources listed there (including a study done at BYU) might be helpful:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/58407-temple-marriage-statistics/

[thesometimesaint]

I look around myself. Temple divorces are a bit less than "civic" divorces. I don't know where the stat originates from, but I believe that c. 25% of first time marriages end in divorce; somewhat over 50% of second time marriages end in divorce, and c. 80% of remarriages three times or more end in divorce. Mormons are not significantly different from this today, although several decades ago temple sealing marriages only failed c. 10%. Those are the numbers I still carry around in my gourd. Somebody can correct me....

The 6% rate still holds when using Temple married LDS. For non Temple married LDS stats are still lower compared to most other faiths, but not exceptionally lower.

[Stone holm]

There was an earlier thread that touched on this subject. Some of the sources listed there (including a study done at BYU) might be helpful:

http://www.mormondia...age-statistics/

There was an interesting comment made about the study of sealings and "Temple Divorce" which normally draws complaints that there is no such thing as a "Temple Divorce" -- I can think of numerous examples of men who have been married and divorced several times who still have multiple sealings. Normally, the Church will not grant a "cancelation of sealings" to a sister until she is engaged and preparing to go to the Temple -- and sometimes not even then. If the woman leaves the Church and her testimony behind, she is not likely ever to seek a cancelation of sealings -- for the brother, there is normally no good reason to seek a cancelation of sealings, but most will consent if the woman wants to be sealed to someone else. I am seeing so many young returned missionaries who have gotten married right away and a year or so later going through divorce, that I am beginning to be suspicious of claims regarding our divorce rate -- we have a lot of serial monogamists in the Church.

[KevinG]

My wife and I decided it was tought enough being "trained" the first time so we're sticking with what we've got. I believe this pragmatic view holds true to most Temple sealed LDS.

(...and if you aren't laughing by now please re-read that with the proper amount of sarcasm...)

[thesometimesaint]

There was an interesting comment made about the study of sealings and "Temple Divorce" which normally draws complaints that there is no such thing as a "Temple Divorce" -- I can think of numerous examples of men who have been married and divorced several times who still have multiple sealings. Normally, the Church will not grant a "cancelation of sealings" to a sister until she is engaged and preparing to go to the Temple -- and sometimes not even then. If the woman leaves the Church and her testimony behind, she is not likely ever to seek a cancelation of sealings -- for the brother, there is normally no good reason to seek a cancelation of sealings, but most will consent if the woman wants to be sealed to someone else. I am seeing so many young returned missionaries who have gotten married right away and a year or so later going through divorce, that I am beginning to be suspicious of claims regarding our divorce rate -- we have a lot of serial monogamists in the Church.

It's an inverse relationship, the longer a couple is together the lower the divorce rate is. Of note is the fact that Brigham Young granted a higher rate of Temple divorces than any other President of the Church since.

[Buzzard]

This is a small sample size, but in the ward I live in, in the past nine years since we moved in, there has been exactly one divorce, that by a young couple who split after less than a year. I would posit that for any group of 160+ families to go that length of time with only one divorce is statistically remarkable.

[KevinG]

It's an inverse relationship, the longer a couple is together the lower the divorce rate is. Of note is the fact that Brigham Young granted a higher rate of Temple divorces than any other President of the Church since.

I often interpret Brother Brigham's attitude as, let them send themselves to hell if they wan't I'm not going to stand in their way.

[thesometimesaint]

I often interpret Brother Brigham's attitude as, let them send themselves to hell if they wan't I'm not going to stand in their way.

Brigham Young was rather outspoken at times. From the few divorce I've seen it is the Hell they are trying to escape from, not flee to.

[Ahab]

My wife and I decided it was tought enough being "trained" the first time so we're sticking with what we've got. I believe this pragmatic view holds true to most Temple sealed LDS.

(...and if you aren't laughing by now please re-read that with the proper amount of sarcasm...)

What part of that is supposed to be funny? I know what you mean by "training" and my wife and I have chosen to do the same thing, even though we're still in training. In fact, I don't know if the training will ever be over, but I do know that neither of us will ever choose to be separated. We're not perfect yet but we are still trying and we're both willing to go through whatever amount of training is needed. And the training is getting to be even more fun as we go further along in the process.

[KevinG]

What part of that is supposed to be funny?

The humor is in irony... That we would choose to stay in a marriage because being trained is too hard. Of course the irony is only amusing if the marriage is a good one.

[Ahab]

The humor is in irony... That we would choose to stay in a marriage because being trained is too hard. Of course the irony is only amusing if the marriage is a good one.

Irony, huh. <shrug> I still don't get it.

My marriage with my wife is very good and the training isn't that hard, and it's even getting to be more and more fun.

Is it me who is supposed to be laughing, or somebody else?

[Calm]

The 6% rate still holds when using Temple married LDS. For non Temple married LDS stats are still lower compared to most other faiths, but not exceptionally lower.

CFR please.

[Calm]

Normally, the Church will not grant a "cancelation of sealings" to a sister until she is engaged and preparing to go to the Temple -- and sometimes not even then.

This appears to have been changed. Not only has someone mentioned it on the board, but I just came across (got to remember where) a reference that stated this was officially changed around 99 IIRC, though it appears it has not been well publicized if so.

but most will consent if the woman wants to be sealed to someone else.

Who do you mean when you say "most"?

My memory says that 1 in 6 divorces in the Church occur among those who have been married for less than a year.

I will try to find that and the reference to cancelations not having to wait until a marriage so no need to issue CFRs.

[Calm]

Of note is the fact that Brigham Young granted a higher rate of Temple divorces than any other President of the Church since.

One would need to remove those that involved plural marriages imo to make this a meaningful comparison. BY was very good at granting women divorces in the case of plural marriages, not so much men. And for awhile Utah was the place to go for quickie divorces. (do I need to get a reference for these claims or are they well known enough so I don't need to bother?)

[Calm]

Brigham Young was rather outspoken at times. From the few divorce I've seen it is the Hell they are trying to escape from, not flee to.

Unfortunately in most cases of divorce I've seen, the Hell goes with them because they've created it...it was not inherent to the marriage (cases of abuse not included).

[thesometimesaint]

CFR please.

Your wish is my command.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/temple-marriage

[thesometimesaint]

Unfortunately in most cases of divorce I've seen, the Hell goes with them because they've created it...it was not inherent to the marriage (cases of abuse not included).

The few cases where I have intimate knowledge of the marriage, abuse(verbal, and physical) was a big factor.

[Calm]

Your wish is my command.

http://www.mormonnew...temple-marriage

I would have preferred the original article...so I went out and found it myself:

http://www.adherents...s_marriage.html

Unfortunately this is what is given:

While other Mormons divorce at the usual rate, only 6% of those who undergo the demanding temple marriage break up, according to Brigham Young University professor Daniel K. Judd.

So now I need to go track down what Brother Judd states...but my memory says he is going from old data from the 80s.

Found this: http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/12/temple-mariage-and-civil-divorce/

The Mormon data in the study was gathered by taking a random sample (n = 7446) of adults (18+) in the US and Canada based on Church records. They mailed or phoned surveys with a 81% response rate, but 15% (included in the 81%) came from the person’s Bishop based on what he knew of the person aided by church membership records. Of the missing 19%, 4% refused to answer, 1% had died or had officially left the Church, and about 14% didn’t respond (the authors likened that category of people who are Mormons, but who don’t self identify as such. The self-identification problem is fairly typical in religious research, but scholars usually forge ahead after acknowledging the limitations. The divorce rates are calculated as number ever-divorced divided by the number ever-married. This percentage was compared to that found for Catholics and Protestants, using prior survey results over several years (this data not originally collected by Heaton and his co-author).

Let me quickly summarize the numbers for male and female divorce rates calculated this way:

Catholic: 19.8/23.1

Liberal Protestant: 24.4/30.8

Conservative Protestant: 27.7/30.9

Mormon (total): 14.3/18.8

Compare those numbers to the 1999 Barna Survey (used here) which calculated its percentage by ever-divorced divided by total number of adults. In this calculation the denominator is relatively larger than ever-married population denominator used in the study above.

Non-denominational 34%

Baptists: 29%

Mainline Protestants: 25%

Mormons: 24%

Catholics: 21%

Lutherans: 21%

As another baseline of comparison, Michael Quinn in Mormon Hierarchy: Extensions of Power page 828 has an entry for 26 JAN 1942 which reads:

first counselor J. Reuben Clark tells reporter from Look magazine: “Our divorces are piling up.” Church Historian’s office in 1968 compiles divorce statistics since 1910 for temple marriages, “church civil” marriages, and “other civil” marriages. Although temple marriages have the lowest divorce rate, in 1910 there was one “temple divorce” (cancellation of sealing) for every 66 temple marriages performed that year, 1:41 in 1915, 1:34 in 1920, 1:27 in 1925, 1:30 in 1930, 1:23 in 1935, 1:27 in 1939, 1:17 in 1945, 1:31 in 1950. 1:30 in 1955, 1:19 in 1960 and 1965. Last rate for temple divorce is almost ten times higher than Utah’s civil divorce rate [a] century earlier.

Finally readers will interested in Tim Heaton’s remarks at the 2002 FAIR conference where he discussed studies that where then more up-to-date and

Edited May 10, 2013 by calmoriah

[tyler90az]

This is a small sample size, but in the ward I live in, in the past nine years since we moved in, there has been exactly one divorce, that by a young couple who split after less than a year. I would posit that for any group of 160+ families to go that length of time with only one divorce is statistically remarkable.

Since I have been in the church my ward has not experienced a single divorce.

[Ahab]

One would need to remove those that involved plural marriages imo to make this a meaningful comparison. BY was very good at granting women divorces in the case of plural marriages, not so much men. And for awhile Utah was the place to go for quickie divorces. (do I need to get a reference for these claims or are they well known enough so I don't need to bother?)

I didn't know that but I know you well enough to know I can take your word for it... plus the Holy Spirit tells me it's true, too.

So there.

[thesometimesaint]

I would have preferred the original article...so I went out and found it myself:

http://www.adherents...s_marriage.html

Unfortunately this is what is given:

So now I need to go track down what Brother Judd states...but my memory says he is going from old data from the 80s.

Found this: http://www.fairblog.org/2008/09/12/temple-mariage-and-civil-divorce/

Agreed. However we are talking about an exclusive subgroup of Mormons. Those married in the Temple. For more information SEE; Religion, Mental Heath and the Latter-day Saints pages 107-128.

[Calm]

Agreed. However we are talking about an exclusive subgroup of Mormons. Those married in the Temple. For more information SEE; Religion, Mental Heath and the Latter-day Saints pages 107-128.

I have no doubt that the stats are lower even now for temple married LDS...it just makes sense consider how religious activity corresponds to other factors that influence longevity in marriages. However it would be really nice to have temple marriage date that is not from the 80s. A lot can change in 30 years, one only has to look at the data on regular marriage to see that.

[thesometimesaint]

I've been out of the Biz for a while. So I don't know of any more up to date references on LDS Temple marriage divorce rates visa vie LDS non Temple marriage divorce rates. With all the belt tightening of the last several years, and the rapid increases in the cost of doing the basic research, I don't foresee any new studies for awhile. As much as you and would like to see them.