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Revelation 22

16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

I like this scripture. It has my name in it! Not that it has to do with the subject.

Acts 17: (I like this one because it says we are the offspring of God)

28 For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring.

29 Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man

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The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name

The LORD will march out like a mighty man, like a warrior

man Christ Jesus

he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war

is a man

a man


Paul O

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For those who don't remember me this is Tanyan, I started this Thread. Wow !, alot happenin here !. Alot of greek neo/platonic gnostic hellenistic rhetorical dialectic hermanutics goin on around here by our critics. As to Numbers 23:9 - This verse is cited constantly by our critics to prove that GOD is not a MAN but an incorporeal spirit, but Numbers 23:9 actual means quite the opposite. In the NASB, this passage reads, in pertinent part as follows: "God is not a man, that he should lie,Nor a son of man that he should repent". Ignoring the context, this English translation appears on its face to givve credence to the classical argument. But examination of the original Hebrew reveals a different story.

The first word translated as "man" in this vverse comes from the Hebrew word, "ish", which is a "Comparative" form of the word "man". This word is used to compare one type of man with another, not to contrest men with other species of beings. It is used, for example, to refer to a man as opposed to a woman, a husband as opposed to a wife, a younger man as opposed to a older man [ See Gesenius' Hebrew and Chaldee Lexicon, Samual Tregelles, trans. Grand Rapids Michigan Baker Book house 1979.

Women, wives and older men are all beings of the samr spiecies. The Hebrew word "ish" assumes that charactoristic as the point of similarity on which it is used to make comparisons Those comparisons are made only on the basis of gender, marital status, age, ext., not on the basis of species. In this passage the "Attribute" being compared through use of the word "ish" is the trait of "Honesty", not manhood. The verse compares one GOD as a man who does not lie with mortal men who do. Tha passage always assumes that GOD is a man.

The words translated "a son of man" in the next portion of the verse are taken from the Hebrew, ben adom, a phrase used to to refer specifically to a mortal man, literaly a son of Adam [ibid]. The contrast is not between GOD and man, for that would have required use of the Hebrew word "adam" alone. The contrast is between GOD an Immortal MAN who is Morally perfect, and mortal men who are morally imperfect and in need of repentance. Again the the assumption is that GOD is a MAN.

The language of this verse in the original Hebrew was obviously chosen with great care to avoid any suggestion that GOD is a different species or has a different nature than Man. Unfortunatly, that care did not survive translation into english. Numbers 23:19 proclaims that GOD does "NOT" differ from Man in nature, substance or essence. Rather, it teaches that mortal men are imperfect, while GOD is a perfect MAN. [see Richard Hopkins book How Greek Philosophy Corrupted Th Christian Concept of GOD pages 259--260] .

Our western minded critics such as Johnny and Roman need to breath and think Eastern, not clouded Western thought when looking a t scripture. A class in Early Israelite/ Christian mindsets would help them there are other issues but enough for now. Peace and Grace to all. In His Debt/ Grace Tanyan.

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ONE GOD ENTITY= FATHER/SON/HOLY GHOST=Nature= NON GENDERED A/SEXUAL/ANDROGYNOUS/HERMAPHRODITE ? is that what our critics are saying ?, but wait isn't THE LORD OF LIFE CHRIST JESUS "THE GOD MAN" ?, which cancels out there formula in which they go completly against the LAW OF NON CONTRADICTION. Oh well, I will try and ponder this more later. Grace and Peace to all.

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Jesus is our example.

Jesus has gender and he is eternally married to a woman or perhaps several.

He is resurrected having a body of flesh and bones, immortal, glorified - perfected in everyway. All of his body parts are in tact. He is male in every sense of the word and is fully functioning in his ability to reproduce. Otherwise, he wouldn't be a glorified man.

Perhaps our critics don't believe that Jesus has passion and desire to love a woman. Why should they think that? Does the Bible teach them this? I think not.

Jesus showed himself to his apostles as a resurrected Man. They felt him. They talked with him. They watched him eat, probably laugh too. Our critics would have us believe that he is less than a man. This is so sad.

We need to keep bearing testimony to our critics and not give up on them. Think about how much joy they will have once they convert to the living Christ - the one we know.

Paul O

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Your post above was excellent.

Perhaps our critics would prefer:

Rev 5:7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of IT that sat upon the throne.

What if we change every male pronoun refering to God in the Bible to "It"?

Paul O

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