Bill “Papa” Lee Posted July 18, 2018 Posted July 18, 2018 Recently I have learned how to post Facebook posts here, so often like my recent poem it says to "Click more", to see it all. Anyway, I thought this might be a good topic to comment on... "Darkness, the truest darkness, is not the absence of light, it is the conviction that the light will never return. But the light always returns, to show us things familiar, home, family, and things entirely new, or long overlooked. It shows us new possibilities and challenges us to pursue them.." These of course are not my words, they come from a movie, of all places, but no matter the source we should...as the listed AoF, suggests. The Apostle Paul taught in Philippians 4:8, "Finally, Brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." One of the tenants and teachings of my Faith is listed in the 13th Article of Faith, states the following... "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". Herein ends the lesson...so please add your thoughts (your kind thoughts) that others may also learn. Also in my 61+ years, I have learned that when we make the effort to comment, and give pause to think what comments that would edify others, then we also learn, and learn from the source of all knowledge. Any thoughts? 2
Eek! Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 9:03 PM, Bill "Papa" Lee said: One of the tenants and teachings of my Faith is listed in the 13th Article of Faith, states the following... "We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and doing good to all men; indeed, we may say we follow the admonition of Paul--We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". The following is just my opinion. I always liked this phrase: "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". This is permission to, and perhaps even an injunction to, seek that which is good wherever it may be found, rather than only within the Mormon religion. We find this teaching in Second Nephi: "And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. "Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written. "For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written. "For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it. " This seems to be saying that God's communication with mankind is limited neither to a single people nor to a single set of writings. I was an active Mormon for several decades, and my recollection is that seldom (if ever) was anything taught that came from outside the leadership of the church. I can think of two possible reasons for this: 1) People didn't want to get something wrong, and 2) It is much easier if someone you trust has already decided what should be said, rather than having to prayerfully figure it out for yourself. I am of the opinion that God still speaks to people all over the place, just like those words you quoted from a movie. Here are a few others I've come across: "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. - the Dalai Lama "Seek that which, within, lies waiting to begin. The fight of your life is everyday." - Jethro Tull "The truth will set you free, but first it will p*** you off." - Gloria Steinem "Always follow the highest you know." - JJ Dewey "I place no limitations on the healing power of the Atonement of Christ." - Bill van Buskirk (LDS, but not part of "the leadership") Imo there are many books out there which are great resources for those who are seeking truth. Near-death experiences in particular can be a great source of information for someone who is seeking truth. Imo the most important thing to do with ANY teaching from ANY source is, run it by your own soul. Get your own reading on it. Ponder it and listen for that still, small voice. The very first thing you were given after Baptism was the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and what higher source can you have than a direct witness from God the Holy Spirit? Sure we are going to make mistakes as we learn to follow the Spirit, we will mistake our own desires for the Spirit because our own desires feel good to us, but if we don't even try we will never learn from our mistakes so that we can tell the difference. And didn't someone once tell us to "seek, and ye shall find"? Somehow that seems like we are being told to take a very active role in our search for truth, rather than just waiting for everything to be spoon-fed to us from a lesson manual. Just my opinion. 3
FunOnlineMan Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 6 hours ago, Eek! said: I was an active Mormon for several decades, and my recollection is that seldom (if ever) was anything taught that came from outside the leadership of the church. I can think of two possible reasons for this: 1) People didn't want to get something wrong, and 2) It is much easier if someone you trust has already decided what should be said, rather than having to prayerfully figure it out for yourself. I recall reading in (maybe) the new missionary manual thing to teach that Mormons can accept the virtuous teachings of other religions. Maybe I’m misremembering, and maybe this is exactly the spoon feeding you mean. I, like you, don’t recall hearing anything other than maybe some non-LDS anecdotes used in lessons or talks. I’d be surprised, though, if one of the GAs, specifically Gordon Hinckley, didn’t drop a little Dalai quote in a conference talk at some point. 1
pogi Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Eek! said: I was an active Mormon for several decades, and my recollection is that seldom (if ever) was anything taught that came from outside the leadership of the church. I can think of two possible reasons for this: 1) People didn't want to get something wrong, and 2) It is much easier if someone you trust has already decided what should be said, rather than having to prayerfully figure it out for yourself. 23 minutes ago, FunOnlineMan said: I recall reading in (maybe) the new missionary manual thing to teach that Mormons can accept the virtuous teachings of other religions. Maybe I’m misremembering, and maybe this is exactly the spoon feeding you mean. I, like you, don’t recall hearing anything other than maybe some non-LDS anecdotes used in lessons or talks. I’d be surprised, though, if one of the GAs, specifically Gordon Hinckley, didn’t drop a little Dalai quote in a conference talk at some point. Of course there is the 13th apostle, C.S. Lewis - as of Nov. 2013 he had been quoted 23 times in general conference. But in general, I agree. I would love to see more light embraced by Mormonism from outside the church. Edited July 19, 2018 by pogi 1
FunOnlineMan Posted July 19, 2018 Posted July 19, 2018 21 minutes ago, pogi said: Of course there is the 13th apostle, C.S. Lewis - as of Nov. 2013 he had been quoted 23 times in general conference. If someone doesn’t hook that fish in the spirit world, haloed heads are gonna roll. 1
Guest Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 15 hours ago, Eek! said: The following is just my opinion. I always liked this phrase: "If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things". This is permission to, and perhaps even an injunction to, seek that which is good wherever it may be found, rather than only within the Mormon religion. We find this teaching in Second Nephi: "And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever. "Wherefore, because that ye have a Bible ye need not suppose that it contains all my words; neither need ye suppose that I have not caused more to be written. "For I command all men, both in the east and in the west, and in the north, and in the south, and in the islands of the sea, that they shall write the words which I speak unto them; for out of the books which shall be written I will judge the world, every man according to their works, according to that which is written. "For behold, I shall speak unto the Jews and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the Nephites and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto the other tribes of the house of Israel, which I have led away, and they shall write it; and I shall also speak unto all nations of the earth and they shall write it. " This seems to be saying that God's communication with mankind is limited neither to a single people nor to a single set of writings. I was an active Mormon for several decades, and my recollection is that seldom (if ever) was anything taught that came from outside the leadership of the church. I can think of two possible reasons for this: 1) People didn't want to get something wrong, and 2) It is much easier if someone you trust has already decided what should be said, rather than having to prayerfully figure it out for yourself. I am of the opinion that God still speaks to people all over the place, just like those words you quoted from a movie. Here are a few others I've come across: "Be kind whenever possible. It is always possible. - the Dalai Lama "Seek that which, within, lies waiting to begin. The fight of your life is everyday." - Jethro Tull "The truth will set you free, but first it will p*** you off." - Gloria Steinem "Always follow the highest you know." - JJ Dewey "I place no limitations on the healing power of the Atonement of Christ." - Bill van Buskirk (LDS, but not part of "the leadership") Imo there are many books out there which are great resources for those who are seeking truth. Near-death experiences in particular can be a great source of information for someone who is seeking truth. Imo the most important thing to do with ANY teaching from ANY source is, run it by your own soul. Get your own reading on it. Ponder it and listen for that still, small voice. The very first thing you were given after Baptism was the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and what higher source can you have than a direct witness from God the Holy Spirit? Sure we are going to make mistakes as we learn to follow the Spirit, we will mistake our own desires for the Spirit because our own desires feel good to us, but if we don't even try we will never learn from our mistakes so that we can tell the difference. And didn't someone once tell us to "seek, and ye shall find"? Somehow that seems like we are being told to take a very active role in our search for truth, rather than just waiting for everything to be spoon-fed to us from a lesson manual. Just my opinion. Nephi's words wer suggesting or making clear that God has not spoken only to those of the Bible, that he can speak to anyone. Are you suggesting that his words mean something different?
Eek! Posted July 20, 2018 Posted July 20, 2018 2 hours ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Nephi's words were suggesting or making clear that God has not spoken only to those of the Bible, that he can speak to anyone. That's exactly what I'm suggesting! And not just the He can, but that He does.
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