The GOD of Abraham, the GOD of Isaac, the GOD of Jacob

[Maidservant]

I was reading chapter 6 of Nephi today.

I try to read without assumptions or preconceived notions.  (I try!)

I read that Nephi's 'full intent' in writing was to persuade readers to 'come and be saved' by the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.  So without relying on connections and understanding I (think I) already have, and reading it as if this was the first time I ever read anything like that, I asked myself, 'Who or what is that God?'  In fact--are they three Gods?  The God of Abraham.  The God of Isaac.  The God of Jacob.

As soon as I thought of three Gods, something did seep in (admittedly something previously or otherwise known), as I seemed to see that the God of Abraham is the Father; the God of Isaac is the Son; and the God of Jacob is the Holy Ghost.  Not so much as that each individual man in history had that separate God, but that the template of each of these individuals might yield insights into the template of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Has anyone had any thoughts along these lines before or read anything elsewhere to speak to this possibility?

Edited May 30, 2018 by Maidservant

[snowflake]

15 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

I was reading chapter 6 of Nephi today.

I try to read without assumptions or preconceived notions.  (I try!)

I read that Nephi's 'full intent' in writing was to persuade readers to 'come and be saved' by the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.  So without relying on connections and understanding I (think I) already have, and reading it as if this was the first time I ever read anything like that, I asked myself, 'Who or what is that God?'  In fact--are they three Gods?  The God of Abraham.  The God of Isaac.  The God of Jacob.

As soon as I thought of three Gods, something did seep in (admittedly something previously or otherwise known), as I seemed to see that the God of Abraham is the Father; the God of Isaac is the Son; and the God of Jacob is the Holy Ghost.  Not so much as that each individual man in history had that separate God, but that the template of each of these individuals might yield insights into the template of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Has anyone had any thoughts along these lines before or read anything elsewhere to speak to this possibility?

One of the names for "God" in the OT is Elohim: ......A plural noun. Some consider this evidence for the trinity. 

Elohim is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity" in Biblical Hebrew. In Modern Hebrew, it is often referred to in the singular despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew.

[JLHPROF]

48 minutes ago, snowflake said:

One of the names for "God" in the OT is Elohim: ......A plural noun. Some consider this evidence for the trinity. 

Elohim is a grammatically plural noun for "gods" or "deity" in Biblical Hebrew. In Modern Hebrew, it is often referred to in the singular despite the -im ending that denotes plural masculine nouns in Hebrew.

It is seen as plural in Mormonism too.

Joseph Smith - "An unlearned boy must give you a little Hebrew. Berosheit baurau Eloheim ait aushamayeen vehau auraits, rendered by King James' translators, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth." I want to analyze the word Berosheit. Rosh, the head; Sheit, a grammatical termination, The Baith was not originally put there when the inspired man wrote it, but it has been since added by an old Jew. Baurau signifies to bring forth; Eloheim is from the word Eloi, God, in the singular number; and by adding the word heim, it renders it Gods. It read first, "In the beginning the head of the Gods brought forth the Gods," or, as others have translated it, "The head of the Gods called the Gods together."

[Alaris]

6 hours ago, Maidservant said:

I was reading chapter 6 of Nephi today.

I try to read without assumptions or preconceived notions.  (I try!)

I read that Nephi's 'full intent' in writing was to persuade readers to 'come and be saved' by the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, the God of Jacob.  So without relying on connections and understanding I (think I) already have, and reading it as if this was the first time I ever read anything like that, I asked myself, 'Who or what is that God?'  In fact--are they three Gods?  The God of Abraham.  The God of Isaac.  The God of Jacob.

As soon as I thought of three Gods, something did seep in (admittedly something previously or otherwise known), as I seemed to see that the God of Abraham is the Father; the God of Isaac is the Son; and the God of Jacob is the Holy Ghost.  Not so much as that each individual man in history had that separate God, but that the template of each of these individuals might yield insights into the template of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Has anyone had any thoughts along these lines before or read anything elsewhere to speak to this possibility?

I have been thinking about this a lot and wrote an article recently that includes the dominion of Abraham. Your analogy certainly aligns with my view as there are dominions within dominions. Notice how the covenants to be fulfilled pertain to Israel... And if you are right then that is God the Holy Ghosts dominion only. 

Now, add together with the above thought that Paul said that the High Priest approaching the mercy seat on Yom Kippur signifies the Holy Ghost. Might the Holy Ghost be the one who fulfills some or all of the fall festivals? I believe so. 

Also, add into the mix that Pentecost, or Shavuot, was when the Holy Ghost was poured out on the 4th spring festival. If you overlay the 7 festivals on top of a menorah then Pentecost is the glue that binds the spring to the fall... A foreshadowing if you will. 

Much much more to say on this but this idea of another God coming in the flesh... Someone other than Christ... Whose identity has been deliberately hidden from us causes much cognitive dissonance. 

I'm looking at other possible meanings here. 

Both Abraham and Isaac have two sons, the birthright heir and the "other brother." This signifies first that when all is said and done there are those who make the cut and those who don't. The fact the birthright is the younger brother signifies first that age is not a function of inheritence alone and second the birthright offspring take longer to produce... Especially in the case of Abraham. 

Jacob / Israel is a little trickier. All 12 of his sons were considered part of Israel and partakers of God's covenant people. One tribe is erased which to me represents the fact that some will fall off the wagon train. Ephraim and Manasseh being the sons of Joseph may represent again these are tribes are further advanced in light. Manasseh in the book of Mormon may be a microcosm of Manasseh at large where part of them are cursed from prior seeds and those who aren't cursed are held to a higher standard to progress. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Alaris
spelling

[Maidservant]

1 hour ago, Alaris said:

I have been thinking about this a lot and wrote an article recently that includes the dominion of Abraham.

I read the entire article and I enjoyed it immensely, although I have my own way of putting things together (i.e. my own idea of 'who' the Holy Ghost is), so I don't follow you every where you go in the article; but I appreciate the connections you've made.  You might like that in the story of Nephi, both the rod of iron and the Holy Ghost speaking to Nephi as a man, are elements of the Nephi story.

One thing I noted in the article which is neither here nor there in the present subject, but your table of 7 patriarchs is a chiasmus.  Noah and Moses are water; Peter (Rock) and Enoch have kingdoms; I would not venture any further implications, and also as I don't know how to equate the Smith with Michael.

 

the birthright is the younger brother

I've noticed this template is all over the place, not least in the Nephi story.  So cool.

Thanks for contributing!  It does give me a few more things to ponder on.  I do consider Holy Ghost, Son, Father to be progressions (for everyone) rather than people (or only people).

But I am also curious of what more I can learn of what Nephi thought of it (rather than merely relying on what I think of it); or, even better, the purpose and code of the Nephi story as it is crafted.

[Alaris]

14 minutes ago, Maidservant said:

Thanks for contributing!  It does give me a few more things to ponder on.  I do consider Holy Ghost, Son, Father to be progressions (for everyone) rather than people (or only people).

But I am also curious of what more I can learn of what Nephi thought of it (rather than merely relying on what I think of it); or, even better, the purpose and code of the Nephi story as it is crafted.

Ah yes! The spirit who appears to Nephi who is either replaced by an angel or is the angel who is then referred to as "The Angel of the Lord" in chapter 14 or 15 iirc. 

1 Nephi 14 (14!):29 And I bear record that I saw the things which my father saw, and the angel of the Lord did make them known unto me.

The Angel of the Lord - Malaki Yhwh - is a particular angel with particular attributes - and we have about as much about him as we do the Holy Ghost revealed to us Latter-day Saints. Try googling "The Angel of the Lord" LDS with those quotes intact. Not much there.

Exodus 3:2 And the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

3 And Moses said, I will now turn aside, and see this great sight, why the bush is not burnt.

4 And when the Lord saw that he turned aside to see, God called unto him out of the midst of the bush, and said, Moses, Moses. And he said, Here am I.

5 And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground.

--

Joshua 5:13 ¶ And it came to pass, when Joshua was by Jericho, that he lifted up his eyes and looked, and, behold, there stood a man over against him with his sword drawn in his hand: and Joshua went unto him, and said unto him, Art thou for us, or for our adversaries?

14 And he said, Nay; but as captain of the host of the Lord am I now come. And Joshua fell on his face to the earth, and did worship, and said unto him, What saith my lord unto his servant?

15 And the captain of the Lord’s host said unto Joshua, Loose thy shoe from off thy foot; for the place whereon thou standest is holy. And Joshua did so.

--

Exodus 3 (continued:) 6 Moreover he said, I am the God of thy father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. And Moses hid his face; for he was afraid to look upon God.

7 ¶ And the Lord said, I have surely seen the affliction of my people which are in Egypt, and have heard their cry by reason of their taskmasters; for I know their sorrows;

8 And I am come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up out of that land unto a good land and a large, unto a land flowing with milk and honey; unto the place of the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites.

 

Exodus 23:20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.

21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.

22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

23 For mine Angel shall go before thee, and bring thee in unto the Amorites, and the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Canaanites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites: and I will cut them off.

---

 

Jacob asks for the angel's name and does not receive it - Jacob - whose dominion the Holy Ghost represents!

Exodus 32:29 And Jacob asked him, and said, Tell me, I pray thee, thy name. And he said, Wherefore is it that thou dost ask after my name? And he blessed him there.

Samson's parents ask the Angel of the LORD for his name and receive this response:

Judges 13:18 And the angel of the Lord said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?

The Hebrew adjective for "secret" is the same root word as the noun "wonderful" - the word means incomprehensible / wonderful. Though the name of this Angel and the Holy Ghost is indeed secret, here is the use of that same word in its noun form:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

7 Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

And what is the throne of David? The Kingdom and Dominion of Israel (Jacob) alone. Michael's dominion is greater. Jehovah's dominion is greater than Michael's. Elohim's is greater than Jehovah's. 

---

 

The iron rod is the word of God. We LDS equate that to the scriptures, but what if the iron rod is the same person in revelation 12 - the man child to rule all nations with a rod of iron?  The Holy Ghost is an essential component to partake of the fruit of the tree of life after all.

D&C 88:3 Wherefore, I now send upon you another Comforter, even upon you my friends, that it may abide in your hearts, even the Holy Spirit of promise; which other Comforter is the same that I promised unto my disciples, as is recorded in the testimony of John.

4 This Comforter is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom;

Receive the Holy Ghost takes on a new meaning when one considers he - not it - is the promise of eternal life.

I may be repeating what's in my article, but I've been posting a lot on another LDS website and forget what I've posted where. Thank you for your reply and feedback!

 

Edited May 31, 2018 by Alaris
Couldn't stop adding scriptures

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, Maidservant said:

............................'  In fact--are they three Gods?  The God of Abraham.  The God of Isaac.  The God of Jacob..........................

No, the reference is to one God who covenants with three successive generations.  Here is as good a summary on it as any:

Quote

Question: "Why does God refer to Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob?"

Answer: In about a dozen places in the Bible, the Lord God is referred to as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (e.g., Genesis 50:24; Exodus 3:15; Acts 7:32). This name of God emphasizes the covenant that God made with Israel and the Israelites’ special place as God’s Chosen People.

God repeated the Abrahamic Covenant to three different generations: Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob were all given the promise of land, many descendants, and blessing. The Lord first calls Abram out of Ur of the Chaldees to the land of Canaan, establishing a covenant with him (Genesis 12:1–3). God reaffirms the same covenant with Abraham’s son, Isaac (Genesis 21:12; 26:3–4), and later with Isaac’s son, Jacob (Genesis 28:14–15). The Lord who established and ratified this covenant is rightly called the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

When God revealed Himself to Moses in preparation for bringing His people out of Egypt, He called Himself “the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob” in Exodus 3:15. He also instructed Moses to identify the Lord by that name when speaking to the Israelites (verse 16). In this case, the name carries a couple of important implications. First, when God identifies Himself as the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, He clearly distinguishes Himself from the gods of Egypt in whose land the Israelites dwelt. Second, the reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob implies a reason for the exodus: the promise of land. God had vowed that the children of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob would inherit a certain geographical area. God’s faithfulness and Israel’s blessing were directly tied to Israel’s possession of the Promised Land, and the name God uses for Himself harkens back to the covenant with Abraham.  https://www.gotquestions.org/God-of-Abraham-Isaac-Jacob.html .

 

[Alaris]

18 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

No, the reference is to one God who covenants with three successive generations.  Here is as good a summary on it as any:

 

Though I agree that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is one God, these three men symbolize the trinity absolutely.

Now, where I likely differ with most of mormondom is that this God is actually the Holy Ghost where his dominion begins with Abraham and ends with his mortal ministry in the flesh where he fulfills, at the very least, Yom Kippur.

Hebrews 9:7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

The Angel of the Lord to Abraham:

Genesis 22:11 And the angel of the Lord called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

The Angel of the Lord saves Abraham:

# 1 "The Angel of the Lord"

Hrm.... the Angel of the Lord is depicted as a ... dove? Or is that a Hawk?

Now here is Jaoel, the named angel who appears to Abraham in the Apocalypse of Abraham:

7. Stand up, Abraham! Go without fear; be right glad and rejoice, and I am with you! For age-lasting honour has been prepared for you by the Eternal One. Go, fulfil the sacrifices commanded. For lo! I have been appointed to be with you, and with the generations that will spring from you, and with me Michael blesses you for ever. Be of good cheer and go!"

The vesture of Jaoel is not-coincidentally extremely similar to the High Priest and includes a rod or sceptre and crown of dominion:

8. And I rose up and saw him who had grasped me by the right hand and set me upon my feet, and the appearance of his body was like sapphire, and the look of his countenance like crysolite, and the hair of his head like snow, and the turban on his head like the appearance of the rainbow, and the clothing of his garments like purple, and a golden sceptre was in his right hand,

He also tells Abraham he will be visible until the sacrifice (of Isaac?) and invisible thereafter.

9. And he said to me, "Abraham!" And I said, "Here I am, your servant." And he said, "Let not my appearance frighten you, nor my speech, that your soul be not troubled. Come with me, and I will be with you, visible, until the sacrifice, but after the sacrifice always invisible. Be of good cheer, and come!"

Certainly both the identity of the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost have been hidden from us deliberately for God's intended purposes - much more to say on what those purposes may be but I'll leave it at that for now. I don't want to derail the intended purpose of this thread as I have another food-for-thought post that reaffirms the OP.

Edited May 31, 2018 by Alaris

[Alaris]

This is really amazing stuff. Though I referenced this in my post above, I hadn't looked into this until just now ... and not coincidentally, it matches exactly with what I've been saying about the dominion of Israel and the symbols involved here with the Godhead.

Realms:	Matter	Life	Mind
Biblical coverage:	Genesis 1 to 2:4	Genesis 2 to 7	Genesis 8 to Revelation
Creator's Name:	Elohim	Yahweh Elohim	Dabar Yahweh
Flood:	Genesis 1:2, Spirit moving over the waters	Genesis 2:6, Mist waters the whole ground	Genesis 7-8, Noah's flood

The above chart is from http://www.abarim-publications.com/ChaoticSet.html#.WxCKy5_Mf-h which I am not necessarily endorsing as I have only skimmed the page. However, if the author is correct that the name of God changes from the end of creation (Genesis 2:4) to the end of the flood (Genesis 8) then that confirms the fact that there is a unique title for God that begins after the flood where the first full dispensation is Abraham's. 

Dabar Yahweh may mean "Word of the LORD"

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Meaning/Dabar.html#.WxCJ_Z_MdPY

From the above article:

Dabar-Yahweh is one of the few dominant Hebrew names or titles of God in the Bible, although not often enough recognized as such. This beautiful name is introduced as late as Genesis 15:1 where the Word of God is in a vision to Abraham and speaks to him (compare: Elohim occurs in Genesis 1:1, YHWH Elohim in 2:4, and Elyon in 14:18).

Genesis 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

The above statement "I am thy shield" is also in the Apocalypse of Abraham (I'm just finding this out:)

1. Then a voice came to me speaking twice, "Abraham! Abraham!" and I said, "Here I am!" And He said, "Behold it is I, fear not for I am with you, for I AM before the ages, even the Mighty God who created the first light of the world. I am your shield and your helper."

Wow. Genesis 15:1 is the first mention of "Word of the LORD" in the Bible and is where - in my firm belief - the ministry of the Holy Ghost begins. Look at the words the Word of the LORD uses to describe himself:

Shield

Helper

Mighty 

OK so the third one is a plug for the Holy Ghost / Angel of the LORD also being the Davidic Servant (Mighty and Strong one of D&C 85:7) The word of the LORD - isn't that basically what the Holy Ghost is? He testifies of truth. Isn't he a shield and a helper?

The Holy Ghost's dominion is a dominion within a dominion within a dominion

Jehovah WORLDS

Michael WORLD

Holy Ghost 4th Dispensation on or ISRAEL

Both Jehovah and the Holy Ghost are Gods of becoming who become such by sitting on a throne at their superior's behest. This is symbolizes as well with Abraham, Isaac, Israel, Joseph. The Fathers have names changed where the sons do not as they have not yet stepped into their new  permanent, achieved dominion.

• Abraham (Abram) - Father
• Isaac - Son
• Israel (Jacob) - Father
• Joseph - Son

Joseph's children are subset of Israel's sons who are adopted into the 12 tribes, and indeed his life's story takes up the most landscape in Genesis for this very reason. He symbolizes the Holy Ghost who sitteth upon the throne of Michael:

• Abraham - Elohim
• Isaac - Jehovah
• Israel - Michael
• Joseph - The Holy Ghost / Angel of the LORD / Davidic Servant (name hidden / unknown)

Joseph was hidden to his brothers and yet saved them from temporal destruction and even facilitated their redemption where Judah went from  a man who was intent on slaying his younger brother Joseph to becoming a man who offered up his own life to save his other younger brother Benjamin. 

 

The hidden aspect of the name of the Holy Ghost / Angel of the LORD may have everything to do with the fact that this particular step in Godhood is the only conditional one of failure. As Avraham Gileadi explains, Isaiah demonstrates the vassal / Lord relationship of becoming where a conditional servant becomes an unconditional son / inheritor. This may mean that the name is hidden until he succeeds by securing his eternal inheritance.

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, Alaris said:

Though I agree that the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob is one God, these three men symbolize the trinity absolutely.

Now, where I likely differ with most of mormondom is that this God is actually the Holy Ghost where his dominion begins with Abraham and ends with his mortal ministry in the flesh where he fulfills, at the very least, Yom Kippur.

You are reading a lot into the text which is simply not there.

5 hours ago, Alaris said:

......................................

The Angel of the Lord saves Abraham:..................................

Hrm.... the Angel of the Lord is depicted as a ... dove? Or is that a Hawk?

Now here is Jaoel, the named angel who appears to Abraham in the Apocalypse of Abraham:

That bird is the Horus Falcon in Fac 1:1 = Angel of His Presence in Abr 1:15 as mal'ak panaw and angelos "messenger," which appears in both the Apocalypse of Abraham and the Testament of Abraham.

5 hours ago, Alaris said:

.....................................

Certainly both the identity of the Angel of the LORD and the Holy Ghost have been hidden from us deliberately for God's intended purposes - much more to say on what those purposes may be but I'll leave it at that for now. I don't want to derail the intended purpose of this thread as I have another food-for-thought post that reaffirms the OP.

Somewhat obscure comments.  What does that mean?

[Alaris]

14 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

You are reading a lot into the text which is simply not there.

That bird is the Horus Falcon in Fac 1:1 = Angel of His Presence in Abr 1:15 as mal'ak panaw and angelos "messenger," which appears in both the Apocalypse of Abraham and the Testament of Abraham.

Somewhat obscure comments.  What does that mean?

Horus was to whom I was referring with the hawk comment, but you are correct. He is represented by the Falcon not the Hawk. Thank you. 

Not coincidentally, Horus is yet another symbol of the Angel of The Lord, Holy Ghost, Davidic Servant and the truths that remain there may be a result of Egyptus founding Egypt based off the Priesthood. 

I'll refer you to an article I wrote on the hidden aspect of the Davidic Servant that analysis scriptures from our standard works in addition to 1 Enoch which has many and very interesting passages on the subject:

The Book of Enoch and The Davidic Servant Part III - The Hidden Servant

If you would like to discuss that hidden aspect, which is indeed obscure, I'd be happy to start a new thread as that is veering a bit from the OP.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Alaris