mfbukowski Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 I went to the touring King Tut exhibit today in Los Angeles. I had forgotten much of what was in Nibbley's book the Egyptian Endowment, and it became extremely clear to me that that is exactly what the Egyptian ceremonies were about. The Egyptian ceremonies were about learning what one needs to do in order to pass the Sentinels who guard the gates to the home of the Gods and what one must know in order to become a god oneself, and the ceremonies needed to be Resurrected. I will have to reread the Book of the Dead. Absolutely fabulous stuff for any Mormon to know. Masonry is Child's Play. 2
mfbukowski Posted May 20, 2018 Posted May 20, 2018 11 hours ago, MiserereNobis said: First of all, I am not criticizing. I plainly said: Let me be clear that I was not claiming such a thing. I was tossing it out as a possible way to explain similarities between mass and the LDS temple. Second, it is kinda lame to have this tone with me when the reason I don't know what I am talking about is because I have chosen to respect your religion and not look up or watch the temple rites. You forgot to quote what I said in the very next sentence: I'm not saying this is true (I have no idea about the anointing in the LDS temple). I'm just saying that it's one possible explanation. CFR that Mormons are not expected to believe Mormon doctrines. Is this in your scripture? Is this taught by your leaders? Pointing out the temple recommend questions or a quote about getting a testimony doesn't answer the CFR. You are claiming that a teaching in Mormonism is that Mormons do not have to believe Mormon doctrine. That is what the CFR is. Perhaps I'll start a thread on this so other Mormons can chime in. Just to be clear, any quote about this will not answer my CFR. Getting your own testimony doesn't mean that Mormons do not have to believe Mormon doctrine. It simply means that you have had a personal confirmation of Mormon doctrine. I, too, have had many personal confirmation of Catholic doctrine. I do not blindly follow the magisterium. And, as a former Catholic, you should know better than to toss out a silly protestant straw man by calling the Pope infallible. You most certainly know that he is not infallible and that we do not believe he is infallible. He can declare an infallible dogma in the most rarest of occasions, the last of which occurred November 1, 1950. I know it well, too. Why do you think I think this way? Could it be that reasonable minds can differ in belief, because those beliefs are reasonable? OK let's just cut to the chase here or there - whatever Look at this thread starting with this post: http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/70469-was-noah-really-a-preacher-of-righteousness/?do=findComment&comment=1209816460 Two major points made there 1- Prophets are fallible and 2- we do not have to worry about who is right or wrong in declaring doctrine because we have our own testimonies And then there is this from a very credible Mormon theologian- Blake Ostler http://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2005/04/is-there-any-mormon-doctrine/ And then there is this very ambiguous church statement about what doctrine is- which says nothing in the context of 1 and 2 above. Even they cannot define it clearly- what does "consistently published" mean when what is consistently published may be in conflict with other statements which are "consistently published"? And where does it say "You have to believe the following"? https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/approaching-mormon-doctrine And when in doubt shall we try Doctrine and Covenants? Is that "canon" enough for you? D&C 10: THIS is where it states "You have to believe the following"- right here: Quote 62 Yea, and I will also bring to light my gospel which was ministered unto them, and, behold, they shall not deny that which you have received, but they shall build it up, and shall bring to light the true points of my doctrine, yea, and the only doctrine which is in me. 63 And this I do that I may establish my gospel, that there may not be so much contention; yea, Satan doth stir upthe hearts of the people to contention concerning the points of my doctrine; and in these things they do err, for they do wrest the scriptures and do not understand them. 64 Therefore, I will unfold unto them this great mystery; 65 For, behold, I will gather them as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, if they will not harden their hearts; 66 Yea, if they will come, they may, and partake of the waters of life freely. 67 Behold, this is my doctrine—whosoever repenteth and cometh unto me, the same is my church. 68 Whosoever declareth more or less than this, the same is not of me, but is against me; therefore he is not of my church. 69 And now, behold, whosoever is of my church, and endureth of my church to the end, him will I establish upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them. 70 And now, remember the words of him who is the life and light of the world, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Amen. AND we have the "Articles of Faith" as well https://www.lds.org/scriptures/pgp/a-of-f/1?lang=eng And we have this statement from the Encyclopedia of Mormonism- to which I will add emphasis Quote The Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and Covenants use the word "doctrine" in the same way. In the singular it always refers to the "doctrine of Jesus Christ" or to the "points of his doctrine" and means "that which will ensure the salvation of those who accept and act upon it." In the plural, it refers to the false teachings of devils or others (2 Ne. 3:12;28:9; D&C 46:7). The Book of Mormon uses "doctrine" in this special sense as the "doctrine of Jesus Christ" or the gospel (twenty-eight times). Jesus attributed his teaching to the Father: "This is my doctrine,…that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me. And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God" (3 Ne. 11:32-33). Later he declared, "This is the gospel which I have given unto you-that I came into the world to do the will of the Father,…and my Father sent me that I might be lifted up upon the cross; …that whoso repenteth and is baptized in my name shall be filled; and if he endureth to the end, behold, him will I hold guiltless before the Father at that day when I shall stand to judge the world" (3 Ne. 27:13-16; cf. D&C 76:40-42). Thus, the "doctrine of Jesus Christ" is the only teaching that can properly be called "doctrine." It is fixed and unchanging. It cannot be modified or contradicted, but merely amplified as additional truths that deepen understanding and appreciation of its meaning are revealed. It is the basis on which the test of faith is made, and the rock or foundation of all other revealed teachings, principles, and practices. Some of these other teachings comprise what is sometimes referred to as the Plan of Salvation, which is understood as the larger historical setting in which the "doctrine of Jesus Christ" is situated and hence best understood. This is the plan worked out by the Father from the beginning, centering on the Atonement of Jesus Christ as the necessary means by which all individuals are saved and exalted. All other revealed teachings are either aspects of the doctrine of Jesus Christ or extensions, elaborations, or appendages of it. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught, "The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended unto heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it" (TPJS, p. 121). http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Doctrine And then we have this defining article, perfectly new, from an apostle in conference declaring what I have said repeatedly here- Elder Christofferson, April 2012 https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2012/04/the-doctrine-of-christ?lang=eng Quote ....In these revelations we find what might be termed the core doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ reestablished upon the earth. Jesus Himself defined that doctrine in these words recorded in the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ: “This is my doctrine, and it is the doctrine which the Father hath given unto me; and I bear record of the Father, and the Father beareth record of me, and the Holy Ghost beareth record of the Father and me; and I bear record that the Father commandeth all men, everywhere, to repent and believe in me. “And whoso believeth in me, and is baptized, the same shall be saved; and they are they who shall inherit the kingdom of God. “And whoso believeth not in me, and is not baptized, shall be damned. “… And whoso believeth in me believeth in the Father also; and unto him will the Father bear record of me, for he will visit him with fire and with the Holy Ghost. … “Verily, verily, I say unto you, that this is my doctrine, and whoso buildeth upon this buildeth upon my rock, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against them” (3 Nephi 11:32–35, 39). This is our message, the rock upon which we build, the foundation of everything else in the Church. Like all that comes from God, this doctrine is pure, it is clear, it is easy to understand—even for a child. With glad hearts, we invite all to receive it. In The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, “we believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God” (Articles of Faith 1:9). This is to say that while there is much we do not yet know, the truths and doctrine we have received have come and will continue to come by divine revelation. In some faith traditions, theologians claim equal teaching authority with the ecclesiastical hierarchy, and doctrinal matters may become a contest of opinions between them. Some rely on the ecumenical councils of the Middle Ages and their creeds. Others place primary emphasis on the reasoning of post-apostolic theologians or on biblical hermeneutics and exegesis. We value scholarship that enhances understanding, but in the Church today, just as anciently, establishing the doctrine of Christ or correcting doctrinal deviations is a matter of divine revelation to those the Lord endows with apostolic authority.2 ....These same patterns are followed today in the restored Church of Jesus Christ. The President of the Church may announce or interpret doctrines based on revelation to him (see, for example, D&C 138). Doctrinal exposition may also come through the combined council of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve Apostles (see, for example, Official Declaration 2). Council deliberations will often include a weighing of canonized scriptures, the teachings of Church leaders, and past practice. But in the end, just as in the New Testament Church, the objective is not simply consensus among council members but revelation from God. It is a process involving both reason and faith for obtaining the mind and will of the Lord.4 At the same time it should be remembered that not every statement made by a Church leader, past or present, necessarily constitutes doctrine. It is commonly understood in the Church that a statement made by one leader on a single occasion often represents a personal, though well-considered, opinion, not meant to be official or binding for the whole Church. The Prophet Joseph Smith taught that “a prophet [is] a prophet only when he [is] acting as such.”5 President Clark, quoted earlier, observed: “To this point runs a simple story my father told me as a boy, I do not know on what authority, but it illustrates the point. His story was that during the excitement incident to the coming of [Johnston’s] Army, Brother Brigham preached to the people in a morning meeting a sermon vibrant with defiance to the approaching army, and declaring an intention to oppose and drive them back. In the afternoon meeting he arose and said that Brigham Young had been talking in the morning, but the Lord was going to talk now. He then delivered an address, the tempo of which was the opposite from the morning talk. … “… The Church will know by the testimony of the Holy Ghost in the body of the members, whether the brethren in voicing their views are ‘moved upon by the Holy Ghost’; and in due time that knowledge will be made manifest.”6 The Prophet Joseph Smith confirmed the Savior’s central role in our doctrine in one definitive sentence: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”7Joseph Smith’s testimony of Jesus is that He lives, “for [he] saw him, even on the right hand of God; and [he] heard the voice bearing record that he is the Only Begotten of the Father” (D&C 76:23; see also verse 22). I appeal to all who hear or read this message to seek through prayer and study of the scriptures that same witness of the divine character, the Atonement, and the Resurrection of Jesus Christ. Accept His doctrine by repenting, being baptized, receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost, and then throughout your life following the laws and covenants of the gospel of Jesus Christ. As our Easter celebration approaches, I express my own witness that Jesus of Nazareth was and is the Son of God, the very Messiah of ancient prophecy. He is the Christ, who suffered in Gethsemane, died on the cross, was buried, and who indeed rose again the third day. He is the resurrected Lord, through whom we shall all be resurrected and by whom all who will may be redeemed and exalted in His heavenly kingdom. This is our doctrine, confirming all prior testaments of Jesus Christ and stated anew for our own time. In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. If that still doesn't do it for you, open the thread and I will glad to re-post it all there and then we can duke it out further.
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