Lamanites and the “Others”?

[Bernard Gui]

OK, I know this is a stretch, but hear me out before you kill yourself laughing.

Nephi and Jacob chose specific words of Isaiah and “likened” them to the family of Lehi....a broken branch of Israel. They used them to teach and to warn their people and to foretell the future that was in store for them. As I read these chapters, I ask myself why did they choose this or that passage? I see how they do come to apply to what transpired with Lehi’s descendants throughout their history. So, I came across this....

Quote

2 Nephi 12:6 Therefore, O Lord, thou hast forsaken thy people, the house of Jacob, because they be replenished from the east, and hearken unto soothsayers like the Philistines, and they please themselves in the children of strangers.

7 Their land also is full of silver and gold, neither is there any end of their treasures; their land is also full of horses, neither is there any end of their chariots.

8 Their land is also full of idols; they worship the work of their own hands, that which their own fingers have made.

9 And the mean man boweth not down, and the great man humbleth himself not, therefore, forgive him not.

10 O ye wicked ones, enter into the rock, and hide thee in the dust, for the fear of the Lord and the glory of his majesty shall smite thee.

What are the chances that Nephi is alluding to the Lamanites here? And if that is a possiblity, could he be referring to alliances to be made between Lamanites and indigenous peoples....being replenished by people from the east and the children of strangers? It is curious that no matter how many soldiers the Lamanites lose in war, they always come back next year with thousands more. 

Have at me!

 

Edited February 20, 2018 by Bernard Gui

[clarkgoble]

Nephi would have known this referred to the Canaanite neighbors of Israel. He may be likening it to himself in a typological way. However the main thrust is the second coming and Nephi already knows the Nephites will dwindle and perish.

[Bernard Gui]

Of course Nephi would know this, but later generations would not. 

[clarkgoble]

2 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Of course Nephi would know this, but later generations would not. 

But that's not necessarily relevant to Nephi. He explicitly sees them as lifting up people's hearts and wants people to liken them to themselves. (11:8) But from what I can tell he's reading them millennialistically and sees it as a happy thing that relates to Christ coming. Broadly it definitely refers to the Lamanites and everyone the covenants deal with. The bigger issue is Isaiah 5 that he quotes later - which has obvious affinities to Zenos' allegory. So I don't think he sees Isaiah 2 as explicitly in detail referring to the Lamanites. More that the entire passage of early Isaiah he takes as referring to the scattering and gathering of the remnant. To him this gathering is why Christ is important since by this point the Nephites have merged whatever Messiah theology they had with the revelations about Christ that Nephi has received. 

It's a really interesting quote since it's 13 straight chapters of Isaiah including the more controversial 13 & 14. (Although given Jacob's use if 13 & 14 were extant on the plates it'd make sense he'd quote them)

[theplains]

On 20/02/2018 at 11:56 AM, Bernard Gui said:

It is curious that no matter how many soldiers the Lamanites lose in war, they always come back next year with thousands more. 

What's even more curious is that only one person survived a battle where millions were killed (according to Ether 15).
Imagine that ... making sure all the infants were dead before the last 2 soldiers battled each other.

Jim

[cdowis]

1 hour ago, theplains said:

What's even more curious is that only one person survived a battle where millions were killed (according to Ether 15).
Imagine that ... making sure all the infants were dead before the last 2 soldiers battled each other.

Nibley points out the concept of "point of view" -- or hyperbole.   Give it some thought and you will figure it out.