Not Sure Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 19 minutes ago, Calm said: Yes, there were a few. One, green Flake had chosen to stay with the owner's family, who freed their slaves when they became mbers and moved to Nauvoo. For some strange reason, they only allowed him to stay with the family if he stayed a slave, which he chose to do. I haven't studied in depth to find the reasoning At least one slave was used to pay tithing iirc. He was freed and then employed by BY, again iirc. Less than 5 sounds like it was just a mistaken application of the laws of the Church and the Utah government. Was it legal to own slaves in Utah? If yes, when did slavery end in Utah? Is there a clearer estimate of how many slaves were owned by Church members (would be great to have a source if you know it)? Where can I find the official church statement saying that church members must not own slaves? If there was one, was it early (such as the D & C) or later such as around the Kimbal. Is there any examples of the Church excommunicating members for owning slaves? Sorry, for asking so many questions, but this honestly kind of shocked me.
Calm Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 (edited) 21 minutes ago, Not Sure said: Less than 5 sounds like it was just a mistaken application of the laws of the Church and the Utah government. I have no clue the exact number, the "few" is in relative terms, not absolute numbers. I have known, but my memory is currently vague. I don't know why you would assume low numbers means mistaken application rather than cultural demographics or other influences. At the moment, I am not inclined to do the research for you, if you were expecting that. Feel free to search it out on your own as it is relatively easy. Off the top of my head, I believe blacklds.org has the details and a historical timeline. add-on: obsessive-compulsion is a hard task master This article has census numbers of slaves, along with other info. Now my memory is refreshed on the number, I don't think I will be driven more tonight. https://www.deseretnews.com/article/776242/No-slaves-in-Utah-territory-Think-again.html For in depth study, a good place to start is https://www.amazon.com/Cause-Righteousness-History-Mormonism-1830-2013/dp/1589585291 For a better price and/or to support FairMormon (our book sales are a big part of our fundraising): https://bookstore.fairmormon.org/all-products/1606-for-the-cause-of-righteousness-9781589585294?search_query=Stevenson&results=2 Edited December 4, 2017 by Calm
Not Sure Posted December 4, 2017 Posted December 4, 2017 29 minutes ago, Calm said: I have no clue the exact number, the "few" is in relative terms, not absolute numbers. I have known, but my memory is currently vague. I don't know why you would assume low numbers means mistaken application rather than cultural demographics or other influences. At the moment, I am not inclined to do the research for you, if you were expecting that. Feel free to search it out on your own as it is relatively easy. Off the top of my head, I believe blacklds.org has the details and a historical timeline. Oh course I would not expect you to do research for me I like to do research to find out for myself which I have already started. On the Internet it is easy to find information (and a little harder to make sure that information is correctly sourced). With limited information, I can only make some hypothesis and then try to see if there is evidence that matches the hypothesis. I definitely what to check other hypothesis as well as I get information. My questions simply represent things that I was curious about after having just learned that there was slavery in the early Church for the first time. 37 minutes ago, Calm said: https://www.deseretnews.com/article/776242/No-slaves-in-Utah-territory-Think-again.html Before I saw your response, I found this one but thanks for providing it as well I also found: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_historical_population Which lists that the slaves in Utah was 26/29 in 1850-1860. Will try to answer my questions based on the research I have done today: "Was it legal to own slaves in Utah?" Yes "If yes, when did slavery end in Utah?" Appears to be with the emancipation proclamation, but haven't found an official source "Official church statement saying that church members must not own slaves? If there was one, was it early (such as the D & C)" There isn't one? The Church appears to feel that it is a governmental issue (Doctrine and Covenants 134:12) Quote 12 We believe it just to apreach the gospel to the nations of the earth, and warn the righteous to save themselves from the corruption of the world; but we do not believe it right to interfere with bbond-servants, neither preach the gospel to, nor baptize them contrary to the will and wish of their masters, nor to meddle with or influence them in the least to cause them to be dissatisfied with their situations in this life, thereby jeopardizing the lives of men; such interference we believe to be unlawful and unjust, and dangerous to the peace of every government allowing human beings to be held in cservitude. Based on the number of time it is cited, the document https://www.lds.org/topics/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng appears to be an important one. From this document it is unclear whether the Church say that church members "must not own slaves" as part of official Church doctrine, or that it was the emancipation proclamation through government action that abolished slavery. This of course if a US centric view, it will probably be much harder to research, but I am curious about whether after the emancipation proclamation, international church members not bound by US law still had slaves. "Where can I find the official church statement saying that church members must not own slaves? or later such as around the Kimbal" See above, it is unclear if Doctrine and Covenants 134:12 is still the Church position? Any help on this would be appreciated, but will try to find out more about this on my own. "Is there any examples of the Church excommunicating members for owning slaves?" Have not found any example either way, but still early in research, assuming that Doctrine and Covenants 134:12 is the Church's stance then it might not be expected to have members excommunicated for what is considered to be a governmental affair (just an untested hypothesis, need more information). Will try to check the other sources you mentioned when I have time and do more research on my own. 1 hour ago, Not Sure said: it was just a mistaken application of the laws of the Church and the Utah government After researching my hypothesis, the evidence seems to indicate that my hypothesis is false
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