Ancient synagogue mosaic may depict Alexander the Great

[Rajah Manchou]

I'm intrigued by the similarities of the Alexander Romance to Judeo-Christian apocryphal texts, including the Book of Mormon. So finding this in my newsfeed this morning this blew my mind:

Quote

Experts are thrilled to reveal the mosaic that was discovered on the floor of the fifth-century synagogue in Huqoq. “The quality of the mosaic is extraordinary, the fact that it may depict a meeting between Alexander the Great and the Jewish high priest is also amazing,” Excavation Director and University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill Professor Jodi Magness told Fox News Monday.

The purported Alexander the Great mosaic is the first non-biblical story ever found decorating an ancient synagogue."

The Huqoq Excavation Project involves the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, Baylor University, Brigham Young University and the University of Toronto.

See the video here: http://www.foxnews.com/science/2016/09/12/rare-discovery-ancient-synagogue-mosaic-may-depict-alexander-great.html

National Geographic has a nice tour of the mosaic:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/09/mysterious-mosaic-alexander-the-great-israel/

[Atheist Mormon]

5 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I'm intrigued by the similarities of the Alexander Romance to Judeo-Christian apocryphal texts, including the Book of Mormon. So finding this in my newsfeed this morning this blew my mind:

National Geographic has a nice tour of the mosaic:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/09/mysterious-mosaic-alexander-the-great-israel/

I can't thank you enough for sharing this, having been an Alexander fan all my life, this gives me goosebumps, even though we'll never know for sure.

[Rajah Manchou]

12 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

I can't thank you enough for sharing this, having been an Alexander fan all my life, this gives me goosebumps, even though we'll never know for sure.

Crazy how well preserved it is, and before the real restoration work has even been done.

Because of the elephants I have some doubts that is Alexander, but I'm going to go with the flow for now, at least until a better explanation comes along.

[Robert F. Smith]

7 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I'm intrigued by the similarities of the Alexander Romance to Judeo-Christian apocryphal texts, including the Book of Mormon. So finding this in my newsfeed this morning this blew my mind:

National Geographic has a nice tour of the mosaic:

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/2016/09/mysterious-mosaic-alexander-the-great-israel/

Yes, BYU Professor Matt Grey and other Mormons have been working on that excavation for several years.  https://religion.byu.edu/discovery .

[RevTestament]

Interesting but not too surprising.

Luke 21:24

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

So a mosaic done by Byzantine gentiles of gentiles making nice with the Jews... perhaps just romanticizing their own history?

[notHagoth7]

6 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Crazy how well preserved it is, and before the real restoration work has even been done.

Because of the elephants I have some doubts that is Alexander, but I'm going to go with the flow for now, at least until a better explanation comes along.

It is also quite possible to have been a reference to the miracle where angels spared Jews from being trampled to death from elephants of another invader. 

 

http://strangeside.com/elephants-and-the-jews/

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Interesting but not too surprising.

Luke 21:24

24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

So a mosaic done by Byzantine gentiles of gentiles making nice with the Jews... perhaps just romanticizing their own history?

It is a Jewish synagogue.

[Rajah Manchou]

7 hours ago, notHagoth7 said:

It is also quite possible to have been a reference to the miracle where angels spared Jews from being trampled to death from elephants of another invader. http://strangeside.com/elephants-and-the-jews/

Nice. I have never heard of those accounts.

My first impression while looking at the mosaic, before reading about it, was the conflict between the Sons of Light and the Kittim, a term which applied to Alexander and the Greeks (Macedonians or Seleucids). It looked like a battle scene to me. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kittim

The specialists seem to agree that its a peaceful encounter. If that's the case than the only account that fits is Alexander meeting the high priest. I just don't understand why that fiction would be important to Jews in the 5th century. Seems the accounts mentioned in the link you shared and the battles between light and dark would weigh heavier than a peaceful encounter with Alexander.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Rajah Manchou

[RevTestament]

2 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

It is a Jewish synagogue.

Being used as a church.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Being used as a church.

Lots of synagogues were later converted to churches and mosques.  However, you are ignoring the obvious:  The mosaic is Jewish and originally created by the Jews of that synagogue.

[RevTestament]

12 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Lots of synagogues were later converted to churches and mosques.  However, you are ignoring the obvious:  The mosaic is Jewish and originally created by the Jews of that synagogue.

Like they said "let the debates begin." Not a point worth debating. While it is possible Jews were there at that time, if I were a Jew I don't think I would make that mural. I doubt they really had many kind feelings towards the Seleucids despite the Letter of Aristeas myth.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Like they said "let the debates begin." Not a point worth debating. While it is possible Jews were there at that time, if I were a Jew I don't think I would make that mural. I doubt they really had many kind feelings towards the Seleucids despite the Letter of Aristeas myth.

An example of presentism.  A lot of modern Jews are also uncomfortable with the nature of their real history, in which the rules now obtaining in iconoclastic Judaism were fully ignored.  Indeed, the siren song of Hellenism was powerful among the Jews in those times, many of whom even tried to surgically reverse their circumcisions (epispasm).

[Rajah Manchou]

39 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Like they said "let the debates begin." Not a point worth debating. While it is possible Jews were there at that time, if I were a Jew I don't think I would make that mural. I doubt they really had many kind feelings towards the Seleucids despite the Letter of Aristeas myth.

This was my initial reaction. But considering there are also images of "cupids, called putti and masks are associated with the god Dionysos or Bacchus" I obviously don't have a good grasp on the Judaism of that period.  

[RevTestament]

13 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

An example of presentism.  A lot of modern Jews are also uncomfortable with the nature of their real history, in which the rules now obtaining in iconoclastic Judaism were fully ignored.  Indeed, the siren song of Hellenism was powerful among the Jews in those times, many of whom even tried to surgically reverse their circumcisions (epispasm).

Hellenism and liking the Seleucids are two different things. The Jews had a tumultuous history with the Seleucids as demonstrated by the Maccabees. However, they did seem to get along with the Ptolemaic Empire OK and many lived in Alexandria which is where I believe the Septuagint truly came from. Whoever made that mural may have been the same group of people who came up with the letter of Aristeas - it seems to bear the same hallmarks - and no, I don't believe it was Jews.  

[Robert F. Smith]

7 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Hellenism and liking the Seleucids are two different things. The Jews had a tumultuous history with the Seleucids as demonstrated by the Maccabees. However, they did seem to get along with the Ptolemaic Empire OK and many lived in Alexandria which is where I believe the Septuagint truly came from. Whoever made that mural may have been the same group of people who came up with the letter of Aristeas - it seems to bear the same hallmarks - and no, I don't believe it was Jews.  

Well, you can take up your strong feeling that it tweren't the Jews with the archeologists who have excavated it.  Such Hellenistic features in synagogue mosaics were quite normal for centuries throughout the Near East.  Perhaps all those hundreds of synagogues were built by Gentiles.  Erwin  R. Goodenough, a Gentile who wrote the multi-volume encyclopedia on the subject of Jewish symbolism, never came up with that one.  I wonder why.

As to the Seleucids and Maccabees, the problem was actually one of civil war among the Jews themselves:  Between those who wanted to accept Hellenism, and those who forcefully rejected it.

[RevTestament]

4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As to the Seleucids and Maccabees, the problem was actually one of civil war among the Jews themselves:  Between those who wanted to accept Hellenism, and those who forcefully rejected it.

I agree that Hellenism was becoming somewhat accepted at that time. But not in the "civil war" theory as much. I think the main problem was the Jews didn't want to pay tribute to the Seleucid Empire, and resisted their raids and demands for tribute.

As for the synagogue if it was totally new, you have a better argument that it was Jews. If it was a remodel, not do much IMHO.

[Robert F. Smith]

12 hours ago, RevTestament said:

I agree that Hellenism was becoming somewhat accepted at that time. But not in the "civil war" theory as much. I think the main problem was the Jews didn't want to pay tribute to the Seleucid Empire, and resisted their raids and demands for tribute.

As for the synagogue if it was totally new, you have a better argument that it was Jews. If it was a remodel, not do much IMHO.

You are arguing with the consensus of both Gentile and Jewish scholarship on both these matters.  You might want to do some serious reading in that area before passing judgment.