thesometimesaint Posted March 8, 2016 Posted March 8, 2016 3 minutes ago, The Nehor said: I do. God rolls dice with the Universe but the dice are loaded. Maybe. If they are, it seems to be loaded towards Snake Eyes.
cdowis Posted March 9, 2016 Author Posted March 9, 2016 6 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Religion by definition uses some form of the supernatural. While that is not allowed in science. It is like saying that Pi and Pie suspiciously sound like the same thing. I think that is what I said, but I guess I presume too much in how I say things.
thesometimesaint Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, cdowis said: I think that is what I said, but I guess I presume too much in how I say things. I am actually agreeing with it. Just a slightly different emphasis.
TrespassersW Posted March 9, 2016 Posted March 9, 2016 On 3/8/2016 at 5:33 PM, mfbukowski said: Complicating the issue, free will can be seen to be compatible with determinism. http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/compatibilism/ What a fascinating article! Thank you.
Atheist Mormon Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 yes this Deepak guy is brilliant http://www.huffingtonpost.com/deepak-chopra/entry9347750_b_9347750.html
thesometimesaint Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) Science is always tentative. The best we can do is go with the best explanation we have so far as to how things work. SEE Edited March 10, 2016 by thesometimesaint 1
cinepro Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 (edited) On 3/5/2016 at 7:43 AM, cdowis said: What is the answer according to LDS doctrine? This would indicate that it also has free agency, and that single cells also have self-awareness. Obviously single cells don't have free agency or self-awareness. But they do have gender. Edited March 10, 2016 by cinepro
thesometimesaint Posted March 10, 2016 Posted March 10, 2016 9 minutes ago, cinepro said: Obviously single cells don't have free agency or self-awareness. But they do have gender. Gender is a sociological function, not a purely biological one. SEE http://othersociologist.com/sociology-of-gender/ 1
cdowis Posted March 11, 2016 Author Posted March 11, 2016 4 hours ago, cinepro said: Obviously single cells don't have free agency or self-awareness. OK, it is so obvious to you that you should be able to easily demonstrate your proof for us. This is the whole point of this thread. According to Helaman, they have perfect obedience, which obviously to me means that they have free choice and self-awareness. Anyhow, let's see what you got.
USU78 Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 4 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: Gender is a sociological function, not a purely biological one. SEE http://othersociologist.com/sociology-of-gender/ If it is, it's one of which G-d approves 1
thesometimesaint Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 15 hours ago, USU78 said: If it is, it's one of which G-d approves Considering what men have done to the fairer sex that is disputable.
USU78 Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 23 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: Considering what men have done to the fairer sex that is disputable. So ... because some men are brutal to women, spirits are genderless, and there is no Father and Mother in Heaven, notwithstanding the Proclamation and about every 10th word spoken in the Temple? Is that your argument? 2
thesometimesaint Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 31 minutes ago, USU78 said: So ... because some men are brutal to women, spirits are genderless, and there is no Father and Mother in Heaven, notwithstanding the Proclamation and about every 10th word spoken in the Temple? Is that your argument? No. My argument is that gender is sociological not entirely biological. Which BTW occurs in Mormons as well as Non-Mormons. SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudohermaphroditism
USU78 Posted March 11, 2016 Posted March 11, 2016 28 minutes ago, thesometimesaint said: No. My argument is that gender is sociological not entirely biological. Which BTW occurs in Mormons as well as Non-Mormons. SEE https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudohermaphroditism Huh? The incidence of this birth defect is between and .0001% and .0006%. True hermaphroditism's incidence is about .0002%. People get birth defects. It happens. It's part of the "thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to." I don't get why a birth defect means that spiritual-biological verities are affected one way or another. 2
cdowis Posted April 16, 2016 Author Posted April 16, 2016 (edited) Here is a quote from Dyson from which Chopra probably bases his statement: "It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of molecular biology, where mechanical models are adequate and mind appears to be irrelevant. But I, as a physicist, cannot help suspecting that there is a logical connection between the two ways in which mind appears in my universe. I cannot help thinking that our awareness of our own brains has something to do with the process which we call "observation" in atomic physics. That is to say, I think our consciousness is not just a passive epiphenomenon carried along by the chemical events in our brains, but is an active agent forcing the molecular complexes to make choices between one quantum state and another. In other words, mind is already inherent in every electron, and the processes of human consciousness differ only in degree but not in kind from the processes of choice between quantum states which we call "chance" when they are made by electrons." - Freeman Dyson (Disturbing the Universe). from the discussion on this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKe4fshETQ4 Edited April 18, 2016 by cdowis 2
thesometimesaint Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 11 hours ago, cdowis said: Here is a quote from Dyson from which Chopra probably bases his statement: "It is remarkable that mind enters into our awareness of nature on two separate levels. At the highest level, the level of human consciousness, our minds are somehow directly aware of the complicated flow of electrical and chemical patterns in our brains. At the lowest level, the level of single atoms and electrons, the mind of an observer is again involved in the description of events. Between lies the level of molecular biology, where mechanical models are adequate and mind appears to be irrelevant. But I, as a physicist, cannot help suspecting that there is a logical connection between the two ways in which mind appears in my universe. I cannot help thinking that our awareness of our own brains has something to do with the process which we call "observation" in atomic physics. That is to say, I think our consciousness is not just a passive epiphenomenon carried along by the chemical events in our brains, but is an active agent forcing the molecular complexes to make choices between one quantum state and another. In other words, mind is already inherent in every electron, and the processes of human consciousness differ only in degree but not in kind from the processes of choice between quantum states which we call "chance" when they are made by electrons." - Freeman Dyson (Disturbing the Universe). from the discussion on this video. Just depends on how far down that rabbit hole you want to go. Particularly at the Quantum Level. 1
Atheist Mormon Posted April 17, 2016 Posted April 17, 2016 On 3/4/2016 at 0:23 PM, CV75 said: It is not good that atom should be alone. And when they gather so much individuality in one place they create a guy like Deepak.....
Jim Stiles Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 On 3/10/2016 at 1:04 PM, USU78 said: Huh? The incidence of this birth defect is between and .0001% and .0006%. True hermaphroditism's incidence is about .0002%. People get birth defects. It happens. It's part of the "thousand natural shocks that flesh is heir to." I don't get why a birth defect means that spiritual-biological verities are affected one way or another. Jesus recognized the existence of intersex persons and discussed their role in the kingdom of God. Quote Matthew 19:10-12 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with his wife, it is not good to marry. But he said unto them, All men cannot receive this saying, save they to whom it is given. For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from their mother's womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven's sake. He that is able to receive it, let him receive it. People contribute to both society in general and the kingdom of God specifically in ways that have nothing to do with the generation of offspring. The savior of the world (of the elect) has come; the motivation to have as many children as possible is no longer present.
cdowis Posted April 18, 2016 Author Posted April 18, 2016 10 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said: And when they gather so much individuality in one place they create a guy like Deepak..... And we can assume that you are unfamiliar with group intelligence, which occurs in nature. 1
thesometimesaint Posted April 18, 2016 Posted April 18, 2016 10 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: Jesus recognized the existence of intersex persons and discussed their role in the kingdom of God. People contribute to both society in general and the kingdom of God specifically in ways that have nothing to do with the generation of offspring. The savior of the world (of the elect) has come; the motivation to have as many children as possible is no longer present. CFR for Jesus recognized the existence of intersex persons As to replacement.Two offspring are too few and three offspring are too many. I have yet too see 1/3 of an offspring.
Jim Stiles Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 13 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: CFR for Jesus recognized the existence of intersex persons As to replacement.Two offspring are too few and three offspring are too many. I have yet too see 1/3 of an offspring. Matthew 19:10-12
thesometimesaint Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 13 hours ago, Jim Stiles said: Matthew 19:10-12 Eunuchs are not inter-sexed. Try again
cdowis Posted April 19, 2016 Author Posted April 19, 2016 They have colour, charm, etc but not gender. Let's get back on topic.
thesometimesaint Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, cdowis said: They have colour, charm, etc but not gender. Let's get back on topic. SEE http://www.particleadventure.org/quarknaming.html
Jim Stiles Posted April 19, 2016 Posted April 19, 2016 1 hour ago, thesometimesaint said: Eunuchs are not inter-sexed. Try again Those created in the womb generally are.
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