Nephi's Description Of Mary

[Five Solas]

The exact quote is, "He hath no form or comeliness; and when we see him, there is no beauty we should desire him." Your response caused me to chuckle because this same quote from Isaiah is found in the the Book of Mormon (for Latter-day Saints, it doesn't get any more authoritative than that) where the prophet Abinadi quotes Isaiah 53 verbatim. And since Isaiah's words speak for themselves (no comliness, no beauty) why should you be surprised that we Latter-day Saints should take Isaiah and Abinadi at their word? Anyway, here is what Joseph Fielding Smith had to say about the verse in question:

“There was nothing about [Jesus] to cause people to single him out. In appearance he was like men; and so it is expressed here by the prophet that he had no form or comeliness, that is, he was not so distinctive, so different from others that people would recognize him as the Son of God. He appeared as a mortal man” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:2)

The following is from the New Era, one of the official magazines of the Church:

"As with everything that causes us problems, we should look to the example set by the Savior’s life. In Isaiah 53:2 [isa. 53:2] it was prophesied of Christ, “When we shall see him, there is no beauty that we should desire him.” In other words, the thing that attracted the early followers of Christ to him was not his physical appearance; they were drawn to the beauty of who he really was. But while he lived on earth, those who heard him teach and followed his example were able to see true eternal beauty, while those who refused to listen and turned away saw nothing because their hearts were closed." (New Era, March 1996)

Appreciate the reference & the correction, Bobbieaware.

 

I wonder if reading this would change DJBrown's opinion...

 

--Erik

[stephenpurdy]

Over the years, I have heard many Latter-day Saints say (usually in a teaching setting) it's likely Jesus wasn't particularly handsome based on Isaiah saying "there is no beauty we should desire him."

 

I think that there are some Isaiah passages that are referring to how Jesus looked after being beaten and tortured.

 

I don't think those should be used to reflect on Christ's general appearance.

 

-Stephen

[Bobbieaware]

I think that there are some Isaiah passages that are referring to how Jesus looked after being beaten and tortured.

 

I don't think those should be used to reflect on Christ's general appearance.

 

-Stephen

An interesting point. But in case you missed it, here is what B.R. McConkie had to say on the subject:

“There was nothing about [Jesus] to cause people to single him out. In appearance he was like men; and so it is expressed here by the prophet that he had no form or comeliness, that is, he was not so distinctive, so different from others that people would recognize him as the Son of God. He appeared as a mortal man” (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [1954–56], 1:2)

[nealr]

 

I had a few questions about 1 Nephi 11:13,15.

 

What does he mean that Mary is exceedingly fair and white?  Did Nephi believe Mary was chosen

for her outward beauty instead of her inner qualities?

 

Thanks,

Jim

 

 

My two cents, for what it is worth, is that the adjectives applied to Mary are meant to connect her to the Tree of Life. Compare:

 

 8 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me: Look! And I looked and beheld a tree; and it was like unto the tree which my father had seen; and the beauty thereof was far beyond, yea, exceeding of all beauty; and the whiteness thereof did exceed the whiteness of the driven snow.

 

 

So the tree is the whitest, most beautiful tree. Then, when Nephi wants to know what the meaning of the tree is, he sees this:

 

13 And it came to pass that I looked and beheld the great city of Jerusalem, and also other cities. And I beheld the city of Nazareth; and in the city of Nazareth I beheld a virgin, and she was exceedingly fair and white. ... 15 ... A virgin, most beautiful and fair above all other virgins.

 

 

So he sees the fairest/whitest, most beautiful virgin as the meaning of the whitest, most beautiful tree. Just as the tree bore fruit, the virgin bears a child. 

 

The labels white and dark in Nephi's vision are, I believe, part of the symbolism that associates those things with either the positive things (namely the tree) in Lehi's dream, or the negative things (such as the mists of darkness), and are necessarily literal. Most trees are not actually white. In some traditions, trees that in actuality have very dark wood, appear as white trees of life. Fruit which not actually white appears as white fruit. Mary was not actually "white" but appeared as such as part of the symbolism of the vision.  Ditto the gentiles, and ditto the Lamanites' "darkness" moniker here. I think we do our selves a disservice when we read the symbolism of the vision literally.

[Rain]

That's a stretch. She is also described as being most beautiful of all the virgins

on the earth. He is focusing on outward appearance. This same color theme

is applied to the appearance of the Lamanites in contrast to the Nephites.

 

Gail

 

I can see my daughter describing someone just the way that Nephi does. I used to be surprised sometimes when I saw a person she has described to me because they didn't look as comely as she would describe them.  The difference is that she looks on the heart enough that the inward appearance becomes reality of the outward appearance in her mind.   

Thank you.

 

I have a few questions based on your interpretation of 'white'.  

 

In 1 Nephi 11:8, was the tree more pure/godly than the snow?

 

 

 

The tree represents the love of God.  So yes, the tree would be more godly than snow.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Rain