Who Is Robert F. Smith

[CCRW]

Who is Robert F. Smith?

 

Brother Smith I apologize that after six years on Mormon related message boards I do not know who you are.  I've been trying to pay attention to your posting ... I'm impressed with your knowledge and learned a thing or two in the animal sacrifice thread.

 

Would you share some information about yourself for me?

 

this did not help:

https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+f+smith&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

Edited April 12, 2015 by CCRW

[Robert F. Smith]

Who is Robert F. Smith?

 

Brother Smith I apologize that after six years on Mormon related message boards I do not know who you are.  I've been trying to pay attention to your posting ... I'm impressed with your knowledge and learned a thing or two in the animal sacrifice thread.

 

Would you share some information about yourself for me?

 

this did not help:

https://www.google.com/search?q=robert+f+smith&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

A number of those who post online here are friends of mine, whom I have met and with whom I have had delightful conversations in person -- Rob Bowman, Mark Bukowski, Dan Peterson, et al., all of whom go by their real names.

 

So I have been wondering, who is "CCRW," and what have been his other pseudonyms on the blogosphere?  Is that short for Creedance Clearwater Revival Witness, CC Rider West, or something like that?  You go first.

[CCRW]

I don't know Rob Bowman, I had some good conversations with Mark when we both first started here (he will not remember however).  Dan and I have clashed pretty heavy in the past.  I've only posted on MDB, NOM and here ... always as http://www.mormondialogue.org/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1. I also posted on Liz's board as timpanogos.

 

Alcoholic/Drug addict from early teens to 22 years old when I meet my TBM wife ... married 35 some odd years now, three adult children, six grandchildren.

 

I worked as an Ordinance worker in Provo and Timpanogos Temples, twice a week for over 8 years.  I helped start up the Timpanogos Temple and was the Endowment Director on Friday nights, held most all temple leadership roles over the years between the two.  I've been inactive since around 2002.  I've recently finished up (at least hope I have) 3.5 years of nastiness dealing with rectal cancer.  I'm a Senior Software Engineer for a major world wide corporation, with all of my work experience being in the repair or programming of of electronic/computers (Air-force, Fernse/Telemation, Evans and Sutherland, Novell, .com startup, SKDiafuku, Chase, and current). 38 some odd years worth of tying to keep up with the technology, self taught.

 

I've shared my real name with Brother McGregor, Dan and others before ... I will share with via pm to anyone that cares.

 

Apparently you can not get to banned profiles, so the above link is bogus ... rockslider (Dan/Brother McGregor prefered backslider).

Edited April 12, 2015 by CCRW

[Robert F. Smith]

...........................................................................

 

Apparently you can not get to banned profiles, so the above link is bogus ... rockslider (Dan/Brother McGregor prefered backslider).

I scanned some old "rockslider" comments here and there, but they seemed rather innocuous.  Certainly not enough to get someone banned.  So, how did you manage to get yourself banned?

 

Did your severe health problems sour you on the LDS Church, after all the efforts you had made?

 

Do you still live in the Timpanogos Temple district?  Maybe working for SirsiDynix in Lehi?

Edited April 12, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[CCRW]

I scanned some old "rockslider" comments here and there, but they seemed rather innocuous.  Certainly not enough to get someone banned.  So, how did you manage to get yourself banned?

 

There truly was a time here when many were banned for simply being members of the trailer park.  That was basically my sin.  The actual cause was I mentioned mrs jacks thread on the misogyny of a poster here.

 

Did your severe health problems sour you on the LDS Church, after all the efforts you had made?

 

No not at all, that just came on 3.5 years ago. I told my wife one day ... it's Kama for me being such an ******* <- thats an ironic word right there (I really kind of believe that). I've be inactive since about 2002 so the health problems were much later.  The initial cause was a series of bad personal revelation, of which I had worked so hard on ... then the brass heavens when trying to figure that out.  I basically suffered alone for seven years simply avoiding anything religious.  Still wearing my G's still being temple worthy short of tithing and no longer sustaining the prophets.  Putting two boys on missions and sitting in the parking lot while all three of my children were endowed married during this time.  Around 2009 I tried out post-mo, settled into MDB during the Mad/MDB battle years.  It was first learning of DNA issues in 2009 that I became soured.

 

Do you still live in the Timpanogos Temple district?  Maybe working for SirsiDynix in Lehi?

 

I live in Heber, which started out in Provo, but was moved into the Timp district at startup, but after a year we were moved back to the provo district.  Negative on the SirsiDynix.  I commute to SLC at this time.

 

Edited April 12, 2015 by CCRW

[Robert F. Smith]

 

..................................................................

 

Did your severe health problems sour you on the LDS Church, after all the efforts you had made?

 

No not at all, that just came on 3.5 years ago. I told my wife one day ... it's Kama for me being such an ******* <- thats an ironic word right there (I really kind of believe that). I've be inactive since about 2002 so the health problems were much later.  The initial cause was a series of bad personal revelation, of which I had worked so hard on ... then the brass heavens when trying to figure that out.  I basically suffered alone for seven years simply avoiding anything religious.  Still wearing my G's still being temple worthy short of tithing and no longer sustaining the prophets.  Putting two boys on missions and sitting in the parking lot while all three of my children were endowed married during this time.  Around 2009 I tried out post-mo, settled into MDB during the Mad/MDB battle years.  It was first learning of DNA issues in 2009 that I became soured.

........................................................................  

 

So sorry to hear that your personal revelations were rather negative, that the heavens then turned to brass, and that you were so alone during that seven years.  Not to even mention the subsequent health problem.  Would be tough on anyone, but particularly on one who had made such a sustained, faithful effort over a lengthy period.  The word "betrayal" comes to mind . . .  Either that, or the Lord deliberately put you through some harsh trials.

 

Have you considered any other religious tradition?

[why me]

I don't know Rob Bowman, I had some good conversations with Mark when we both first started here (he will not remember however).  Dan and I have clashed pretty heavy in the past.  I've only posted on MDB, NOM and here ... always as http://www.mormondialogue.org/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=search&fromMainBar=1. I also posted on Liz's board as timpanogos.

 

Alcoholic/Drug addict from early teens to 22 years old when I meet my TBM wife ... married 35 some odd years now, three adult children, six grandchildren.

 

I worked as an Ordinance worker in Provo and Timpanogos Temples, twice a week for over 8 years.  I helped start up the Timpanogos Temple and was the Endowment Director on Friday nights, held most all temple leadership roles over the years between the two.  I've been inactive since around 2002.  I've recently finished up (at least hope I have) 3.5 years of nastiness dealing with rectal cancer.  I'm a Senior Software Engineer for a major world wide corporation, with all of my work experience being in the repair or programming of of electronic/computers (Air-force, Fernse/Telemation, Evans and Sutherland, Novell, .com startup, SKDiafuku, Chase, and current). 38 some odd years worth of tying to keep up with the technology, self taught.

 

I've shared my real name with Brother McGregor, Dan and others before ... I will share with via pm to anyone that cares.

 

Apparently you can not get to banned profiles, so the above link is bogus ... rockslider (Dan/Brother McGregor prefered backslider).

I know you from the other board. Welcome back.

[CCRW]

So sorry to hear that your personal revelations were rather negative, that the heavens then turned to brass, and that you were so alone during that seven years.  Not to even mention the subsequent health problem.  Would be tough on anyone, but particularly on one who had made such a sustained, faithful effort over a lengthy period.  The word "betrayal" comes to mind . . .  Either that, or the Lord deliberately put you through some harsh trials.

 

Have you considered any other religious tradition?

 

Have you considered any other religious tradition?

No, I think I'll continue to solo it with my Guardian Angels and God.

 

Ok, I spilled, your turn.

[CCRW]

I know you from the other board. Welcome back.

Thanks why me

 

eta: btw, your showing a welcome hand here reminded me of uglyness even I have thrown your way.  I'm sorry for that.  Please post what you feel you may about yourself in that new thread.

Edited April 13, 2015 by CCRW

[CCRW]

The word "betrayal" comes to mind

 

I wanted to note ... no betrayal is not the right word.  Frustration, disappointment and discouragement are not even the right words. 

 

I had come to love those deep, in my closet, prayers.

 

After two full years of remaining active and begging the Lord for the answer to why, what have I done wrong, where did I miss the boat?  The emptiness turned to an unbearable pain.  I had to turn from it.

 

Starting again to pray seven years later, my prayers remain shallow; I avoid the closet out of fear of reopening the wound. Not anger or any other negative feelings towards God.

[Robert F. Smith]

.......................................................................   

 

Starting again to pray seven years later, my prayers remain shallow; I avoid the closet out of fear of reopening the wound. Not anger or any other negative feelings towards God.

Never tried the closet.  However, I have found the Celestial Room a nice place for extended prayer.  The Timpanogos Temple has a very beautiful one, although I'm usually at the Provo Temple.  Served as a veil worker in Provo for 4.5 years recently.  Before that, living in Los Angeles, I went to the huge L.A. Temple regularly.  Have had some very tender moments in temples while doing the work for close relatives and friends, and have found some of the sisters in tears coming through the veil.  I cried when baptizing one particular ancestor (a great man who was clearly there with me, hard by), and was glad everything was so wet that I didn't have to blot my eyes.

 

Haven't yet had occasion for anger toward God, but then he hasn't really tested me so harshly, and I suppose that I try to avoid tempting fate.  I have found him to be very forgiving and understanding, indeed kind and longsuffering toward me and my shortcomings.  His unconditional love is extraordinary.  He has kept me safe through thick and thin, even though I had done nothing to be deserving of his grace.

 

I always fear that, if I seek any sort of leadership position, I will inevitably rise to the level of my incompetence (the old Peter Principle).  The Brethren are under tremendous pressure for just that reason, and I always pray that they will not be overwhelmed, and that the Holy Spirit will see them through the hard times.  I have also worried on behalf of the temple ordinance workers, supervisors, presidency, and matrons, that they will be able to meet the demands of their positions, and that we will all be able to  serve the temple patrons well and not grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

What is your personal religious philosophy on such matters?

 

Moreover, do you feel that God looks with favor on ordinances performed today by Jewish priests, or by Buddhist monks?

[CCRW]

Never tried the closet.  

 

I'm a duffus, thought there was some saying to that effect. For me, that meant it was typically about 1am after the family had finally quieted down, getting comforable on stacked pillows with my face buried in the front room couch where I could spend a half hour or so.

.

 

However, I have found the Celestial Room a nice place for extended prayer.  The Timpanogos Temple has a very beautiful one, although I'm usually at the Provo Temple.  Served as a veil worker in Provo for 4.5 years recently.  

 

Thats a long time and very dedicated for a veil worker!  I have a long story about some early revelation that told me to find a room in the temple to pray in (its what got me started working there)!  Anyway I'll share a secret with you.  In the basement, along the east wall, behind the laundry is a men's dressing room, straight across from which is a small study room.  The light is always off (leave it that way) and seldom does anyone come by.  That's the place, you will not be chased off and there are few distractions.

 

After we moved back from Timp to Provo, I moved to the first shift as the Endowment Director.  One of the duties was to rotate the prayer roll names, which needed to be done before prayer meeting in the basement.  The top floor is glorious at 4:30 in the morning with no lights on yet and absolutely vacant of any distraction.  It was there, in the Celestrial room that was the beginning of my end.

 

Before that, living in Los Angeles, I went to the huge L.A. Temple regularly.  

I was there on business or some such and did one endowment there.  The paintings are as wonderful as in SLC or Manti.

 

Have had some very tender moments in temples while doing the work for close relatives and friends, and have found some of the sisters in tears coming through the veil.  I cried when baptizing one particular ancestor (a great man who was clearly there with me, hard by), and was glad everything was so wet that I didn't have to blot my eyes.

 

I temple readied thousands of Jewish holocaust names over a few years, handing them out in the locker room.  I’ve also had many good experiences there.  I was the Initiatory Director for two years and especially loved the initiatory.

 

Haven't yet had occasion for anger toward God, but then he hasn't really tested me so harshly, and I suppose that I try to avoid tempting fate.

good plan! Curiosity killed the cat.

 I have found him to be very forgiving and understanding, indeed kind and longsuffering toward me and my shortcomings.  His unconditional love is extraordinary.  He has kept me safe through thick and thin, even though I had done nothing to be deserving of his grace.

 

I always fear that, if I seek any sort of leadership position, I will inevitably rise to the level of my incompetence (the old Peter Principle).  The Brethren are under tremendous pressure for just that reason, and I always pray that they will not be overwhelmed, and that the Holy Spirit will see them through the hard times.  I have also worried on behalf of the temple ordinance workers, supervisors, presidency, and matrons, that they will be able to meet the demands of their positions, and that we will all be able to  serve the temple patrons well and not grieve the Holy Spirit.

 

nice, thats a nice testimony to hear.

 

What is your personal religious philosophy on such matters?

 

Buried for so long, I'm afriad to peek.

 

Moreover, do you feel that God looks with favor on ordinances performed today by Jewish priests, or by Buddhist monks?

 

Of course he does.  They are for us as humans, they are symbolic.  I don't believe there is a literal requirement for them.

Edited April 14, 2015 by CCRW

[CCRW]

So what of work and family?

[Robert F. Smith]

 

.............................................................................  

 

Moreover, do you feel that God looks with favor on ordinances performed today by Jewish priests, or by Buddhist monks?

 

Of course he does.  They are for us as humans, they are symbolic.  I don't believe there is a literal requirement for them.

 

In the case of the Jews, I have always thought that they carry full Aaronic priesthood authority, i.e., the Levites among the Jews have some very specific functions they perform (despite there not being a temple currently).  Some on this board maintain that they have no authority.  My response is to ask why then does the D&C recognize the lineal authority of the priesthood of Aaron if they happen to become LDS?  Quite aside from the mission Joseph gave to Orson Hyde to dedicate Palestine to the gathering of the Jews -- which he performed on the Mt of Olives in 1841.

 

The Mormons typically underestimate the importance of the Jews in the last days, almost as though they cannot see prophecy being fulfilled before their eyes.

[CCRW]

_{From a doctrinal standpoint, yes that makes sense.  Same with all your comments in the animal sacrifice thread.}

[Robert F. Smith]

_{From a doctrinal standpoint, yes that makes sense.  Same with all your comments in the animal sacrifice thread.}

But from your own personal standpoint, do any of these things really matter?  For example, is the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and the massive gathering of the Jews during the 20th century merely happenstance, or is it the fulfillment of ancient prophecy?

 

What of the Six Day War in June 1967, in which the Israelis took the ancient City of Jerusalem for the first time in two millennia?  Is that all just a joke?  I was there on the front lines with the Israelis (with my rifle, helmet, and bandoleer of ammo), and I can assure you that it did not seem at all like a joke.  There were tears, including my own, when the Old City was taken.

 

So too, is Joseph Smith's Restoration of all things mere hogwash, unworthy of serious attention from scholars?  Or does it hold up under close scrutiny?

[CCRW]

But from your own personal standpoint, do any of these things really matter?  For example, is the establishment of the State of Israel in 1948 and the massive gathering of the Jews during the 20th century merely happenstance, or is it the fulfillment of ancient prophecy?

 

I am ashamed to say I do not know anything about Israel and I’m oblivious to the history of the age old conflicts there.

What of the Six Day War in June 1967, in which the Israelis took the ancient City of Jerusalem for the first time in two millennia?  Is that all just a joke?  I was there on the front lines with the Israelis (with my rifle, helmet, and bandoleer of ammo), and I can assure you that it did not seem at all like a joke.  There were tears, including my own, when the Old City was taken.

 

I would have been 10 years old at the time with my following teen years filled with worries of the draft and the continual news of the Vietnam war. Once again embarrassingly naïve to the Israel situation. End of days prophesies with Old Jerusalem, New Jerusalem have always been so vague to me.  I just don’t have any experience or knowledge base to offer anything here.

I assume this puts you in your 60’s

 

So too, is Joseph Smith's Restoration of all things mere hogwash, unworthy of serious attention from scholars?  Or does it hold up under close scrutiny?

 

What a hard post for me to respond to. Without a single statement that I can answer.  The first two hard enough to swallow because of my ignorance, and yet this final being the hardest.

 

I have no standing to make any scholarly contribution on anything. I have only those “feelings” which haunt me. A child’s song comes to mind:

 

“Heavenly Father, are you really there? And do you hear and answer ev'ry child's prayer?”

 

I think this was the real wound to the soul, was it really just me, are you really there?  For years hearing discussions like the mythical Christ remained unthinkable, I’m a Christian, I’m a Christian, … and yet the struggle between claiming Christian, agnostic and atheist knocks and one starts to see why many ex-mormons journey takes them this way.

 

Questions of if JS’s Restoration of all things is hogwash is beyond my emotional/spiritual strength to even contemplate at this time, finding myself barely hanging onto hope that Christ is real and a bit stronger faith that some God exists based on a my memories of these feelings and experiences which haught me from time to time.

 

So yet again, I have nothing to offer here.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

..................................................................

.........................  I just don’t have any experience or knowledge base to offer anything here.

I assume this puts you in your 60’s

................................................................  

So yet again, I have nothing to offer here.

 

I'm sorry, CCRW.  I just assumed that (like me) you were in your seventies.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Robert F. Smith

[CCRW]

 

I'm sorry, CCRW.  I just assumed that (like me) you were in your seventies.

 

 

Don't be sorry.  It made me stop and think.

[Robert F. Smith]

Don't be sorry.  It made me stop and think.

It makes me stop and think as well.  The younger generation has a very different experiential base.  Something I frequently forget -- until my granddaughter tells me that "oh, that's so old-school."