Church Fault-Free In 1843?

[Investigating]

I'd like to know if this is a genuine quote?

I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it. Where this people are, there is good society.

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T6.html

 

LDS.org says it's from Joseph's diary, and from a discourse Joseph gave in 1843, but also says it was reported by Willard Richards.

 

Was Richards writing in Joseph's diary?

 

Was he the only one to record this discourse?

 

Is there any contemporaneous record of Joseph saying anything like this?

[JLHPROF]

 

I'd like to know if this is a genuine quote?

I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it. Where this people are, there is good society.

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T6.html

 

LDS.org says it's from Joseph's diary, and from a discourse Joseph gave in 1843, but also says it was reported by Willard Richards.

 

Was Richards writing in Joseph's diary?

 

Was he the only one to record this discourse?

 

Is there any contemporaneous record of Joseph saying anything like this?

 

 

1. Richards was probably writing in Joseph's diary.  Joseph's diaries were usually kept by secretaries or historians like Willard Richards, William Clayton and others.

 

2. Most public discourses were recorded shorthand by at least 2 scribes (leading to occasional conflicting transcriptions).

 

3. A similar statement was made on June 24, 1844 - "This is the loveliest place and the best people under the heavens; little do they know the trials that await them.”

 

As far as the accuracy of your original quote - it's probably genuine to within reason.  Most of the discourses are.

[Nevo]

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Edited October 1, 2014 by Nevo

[Sleeper Cell]

 

I'd like to know if this is a genuine quote?

I see no faults in the Church, and therefore let me be resurrected with the Saints, whether I ascend to heaven or descend to hell, or go to any other place. And if we go to hell, we will turn the devils out of doors and make a heaven of it. Where this people are, there is good society.

http://www.boap.org/LDS/Joseph-Smith/Teachings/T6.html

 

LDS.org says it's from Joseph's diary, and from a discourse Joseph gave in 1843, but also says it was reported by Willard Richards.

 

Was Richards writing in Joseph's diary?

 

Was he the only one to record this discourse?

 

Is there any contemporaneous record of Joseph saying anything like this?

 

 

It is hyperbole.

 

Do you really think he intended his statement to be taken literally?  Do you also think he believed that God might send all the members of a “fault-free church” to hell anyway, or that it wouldn’t matter much, even if He did?    

Edited September 23, 2014 by Sleeper Cell

[Investigating]

 

It is hyperbole.

 

Do you really think he intended his statement to be taken literally?  Do you also think he believed that God might send all the members of a “fault-free church” to hell anyway, or that it wouldn’t matter much, even if He did?    

 

 

I found it interesting partly because of what I've read from Denver Snuffer and his readers.

 

In their view, Joseph was perhaps the only saint in the Church, and was very much aware of it's shortcomings, and if he really said this, I think it might provide an argument against their position.

[Investigating]

Was the Church fault-free in 1843? No. Joseph acknowledges this in the same sermon:

 

 

When Joseph says, "I see no faults in the Church," he is not saying that there are no faults. Rather, he is saying that he considers the Saints his friends, and true friends do not "see"—that is, do not dwell on—each other's faults.

 

Thank you.

[The Nehor]

I was fault free in 1843. Stupid mortality.... Ruins everything.