Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 Well, you appear to have you mind made up. But if the sources you've linked here are indicative of your study, then I would ask you to read up on some other points of view. And, consider that the LGBT population is not a homogeneous group that can be characterized by one broad brush. They are as varied as the heterosexual population. Allow me to share some information about the gay people in my life... One man, I'll call him Mark, is LDS. A convert, actually. He married a woman and had children because he felt that was what God wanted him to do. He had told his wife he was gay before they married. But after almost two decades he wasn't any less homosexual and the marriage was not working. They divorced and he is now married in a monogamous, committed relationship with another man. They share custody of his youngest child (the others are adults). Another young man (who I mentioned previously on this thread) was raised in an active, strong, LDS family. Went to BYU. Got a mission call. But, in the end, could not go through with it because he didn't know how to go out and teach people God's plan of happiness knowing that he couldn't come home and follow it. Not feeling that there was any place for him in the church as a gay young man, he left. He is in graduate school now but his goal is to marry another man and hopefully be able to raise one or more children together. My aunts. I have two lesbian aunts. One recently married her long-time companion. I have no reason to question their commitment and monogamy. My other aunt has been in a committed relationship for 18 years. Both my aunts and their wives are wonderful, kind, amazing people who do great things for each other and their communities. In all three cases you showed nothing more than people who gave into temptation and decided to live in sin. Sure, they may be great loving people but it in no way excuses their sinful behavior. I have known great people in my own community who did many wonderful things but yet cheated on their spouses, raped or molested children, etc. The bottom line is you support a lifestyle of which according to Church standards is sinful and will not bring happiness nor eternal security. If it is the end result we are after shouldn't we be in the business of helping these people to avoid sinful lifestyles that are against God's laws which bring eternal happiness?
Brian 2.0 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 The bottom line is you support a lifestyle of which according to Church standards is sinful and will not bring happiness nor eternal security. I don't think he'd fight you on that. He's said as much. He'd doesn't believe it's against "God's standards" though. If it is the end result we are after shouldn't we be in the business of helping these people to avoid sinful lifestyles that are against God's laws which bring eternal happiness? Do you support the shutting down of all Starbuck's and making the selling of coffee and tea illegal?
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 Wait, wait, wait... hold the phone... Are you saying that because you don't accept SSM as moral or sanctioned by God or the church, that you also do not accept that Same Sex Marriages exist?!? SSM are legal in a lot of different states and in a lot of different countries. If a study came out that said promiscuity in Same Sex Marriages is on par with promiscuity is heterosexual marriages... would you not accept it? Because you don't believe there is such a thing as a same sex marriage? Am I really reading you right here? How does one define "marriage"? In many gay marriages they agree as part of their marital vows to be open sexually in their relationship. Traditional marriage is all about the monogamous committed relationship. So, how can i say they are married if they have an open marriage to begin with? Thats no marriage covenant at all, its just a piece of paper that means nothing spiritually.
Brian 2.0 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 How does one define "marriage"? In many gay marriages they agree as part of their marital vows to be open sexually in their relationship. Traditional marriage is all about the monogamous committed relationship. So, how can i say they are married if they have an open marriage to begin with? Thats no marriage covenant at all, its just a piece of paper that means nothing spiritually. So the answer to my question:If a study came out that said promiscuity in Same Sex Marriages is on par with promiscuity is heterosexual marriages... would you not accept it? Because you don't believe there is such a thing as a same sex marriage? ...is no, you would not accept that study. Right?
JLHPROF Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Traditional marriage is all about the monogamous committed relationship. - depends which "tradition". 1
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 Denying marriage to gay men because they are promiscuous makes about as much sense to me as denying an umbrella to someone caught in the rain... because they are wet. Once one realizes that true marriage is a covenant made with God in how we will treat our spouse and that marriage is a religious rite, then its a no brainer that sexual perversions cannot be defined as "marriage".
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 I don't think he'd fight you on that. He's said as much. He'd doesn't believe it's against "God's standards" though. Do you support the shutting down of all Starbuck's and making the selling of coffee and tea illegal? Thats different, they are not trying to force their way into my temple to set up shop. Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights.
Brian 2.0 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 In many gay marriages they agree as part of their marital vows to be open sexually in their relationship. Do you believe that there are gay marriages where their vows are to be monogamous? I assume you do because you said "many" and not "all". So basically... since some "bad apples" are vowing to be open sexually, then that means all gay marriages can't be termed as marriages? 1
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 In all three cases you showed nothing more than people who gave into temptation and decided to live in sin. Sure, they may be great loving people but it in no way excuses their sinful behavior. I have known great people in my own community who did many wonderful things but yet cheated on their spouses, raped or molested children, etc.The bottom line is you support a lifestyle of which according to Church standards is sinful and will not bring happiness nor eternal security. If it is the end result we are after shouldn't we be in the business of helping these people to avoid sinful lifestyles that are against God's laws which bring eternal happiness? My reason for sharing some information on those individuals was to help you see a different perspective than the "studies" you have shared with us here. I thought your goal in starting the thread was to gain more understanding. Comparing them rapists and child molesters doesn't really seem to strive towards Elder Cook's mandate on MormonsandGays.org: “As a church, nobody should be more loving and compassionate. Let us be at the forefront in terms of expressing love, compassion and outreach.” 1
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Denying marriage to gay men because they are promiscuous makes about as much sense to me as denying an umbrella to someone caught in the rain... because they are wet.Why don't you actually try to understand what is being said instead of coming up with comparisons that mean nothing. Look, we get it you are all for gay marriage, we are not, at least try to see why we are against it.
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 So the answer to my question: ...is no, you would not accept that study. Right? Studies of same sex couples compared with homosexual couples show that gay couples are more promiscuous and have way more sex partners over the years.
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights. CFR. (Not that I believe you'll provide it.) 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Once one realizes that true marriage is a covenant made with God in how we will treat our spouse and that marriage is a religious rite, then its a no brainer that sexual perversions cannot be defined as "marriage". Marriage is a religious rite. Let's get the government out of the religion business altogether. Make them ALL a legally enforceable civil contract. 1
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Why don't you actually try to understand what is being said instead of coming up with comparisons that mean nothing. Look, we get it you are all for gay marriage, we are not, at least try to see why we are against it. I do see why you are against it. There was a time when I shared similar views, I understand them quite well. Edited September 15, 2014 by rockpond 1
Brian 2.0 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Thats different, they are not trying to force their way into my temple to set up shop. Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights. So you support gay marriage as a right for a citizen outside the temple, then? Or... do you mean that if coffee drinkers were trying to force the selling of coffee in the temple cafeteria, THEN you'd be in support of ALL coffee selling, in or outside the temple, as being illegal? 1
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 Do you believe that there are gay marriages where their vows are to be monogamous? I assume you do because you said "many" and not "all". So basically... since some "bad apples" are vowing to be open sexually, then that means all gay marriages can't be termed as marriages? Some bad apples? I view every gay couple as a bad apple because they are "practicing homosexual acts". Show me the stats that show gay marriages are on par with LDS temple marriages in monogamy, length of marriage, etc.
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 CFR. (Not that I believe you'll provide it.) Its called the push for gay marriage- its everywhere.
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Once one realizes that true marriage is a covenant made with God in how we will treat our spouse and that marriage is a religious rite, then its a no brainer that sexual perversions cannot be defined as "marriage". Why do you think the church fights so hard to end or stop gay marriage? Its because we are allowing secular humanism policies to take over what should be religious rights and privileges only. If marriage is solely a religious institution then those who believe differently than us ought to be able to marry according to their beliefs. You seem to be opposed to that. 1
Brian 2.0 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Some bad apples? I view every gay couple as a bad apple because they are "practicing homosexual acts". Show me the stats that show gay marriages are on par with LDS temple marriages in monogamy, length of marriage, etc. Oh... so now gay marriage has to measure up to temple marriages, not just all heterosexual marriages? I know you think all are bad apples. But my question is... do you recognize Same Sex Marriages that include vows of monogamy as legal marriages? I should say... do YOU recognize same-sex marriages that occur in places where it's legal, as "legal marriages"? Edited September 15, 2014 by Brian 2.0 1
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 Marriage is a religious rite. Let's get the government out of the religion business altogether. Make them ALL a legally enforceable civil contract. I am not even sure when government got involved with marriage, it would be interesting to see how it all went down.
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 Its called the push for gay marriage- its everywhere. You stated: "Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights." Provide a CFR that they are forcing their desires into your place of worship and your rights. You need to provide the CFR or retract the statement. 1
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 If marriage is solely a religious institution then those who believe differently than us ought to be able to marry according to their beliefs. You seem to be opposed to that. It is a screwed up society we live in. I had a girlfriend in high school whose dad ran a religion where everyone got naked and groped each other which included unconsenting minors! Her father even asked her to join! Its no wonder that God will send down fire and brimstone on the ungodly because we have corrupt laws that allow such filth!
Daniel2 Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 (edited) Thats different, they are not trying to force their way into my temple to set up shop. Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights.CFR that homosexuals are "forcing their desires into your place of worship and rights."EDIT: Rockpond (bless you!) Beat me to it. I second the motion. Edited September 15, 2014 by Daniel2 1
rockpond Posted September 15, 2014 Posted September 15, 2014 It is a screwed up society we live in. I had a girlfriend in high school whose dad ran a religion where everyone got naked and groped each other which included unconsenting minors! Her father even asked her to join! Its no wonder that God will send down fire and brimstone on the ungodly because we have corrupt laws that allow such filth! I'm not aware of any law that allows for child molestation. It's starting to sound like you are opposed to religious freedom. Perhaps you could take a moment to read the 11th Article of Faith and D&C 134. 1
Rodeo Posted September 15, 2014 Author Posted September 15, 2014 You stated: "Homosexuals however are forcing their desires into my place of worship and rights." Provide a CFR that they are forcing their desires into your place of worship and your rights. You need to provide the CFR or retract the statement. How many gay mormons push their agenda on the church? Why do you think they came out against same sex marriage? Why did they make the site www.mormonsandgays.org?
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