Cosmos - Science And Religion

[MormonFreeThinker]

Forgive me I just don't see anything political about what I posted.

 

The Church does not:

Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.

Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.

Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/political-neutrality

 

2007 CES Devotional 

"Every day we are assaulted with big worries: global warming...But as serious as all this is" - Elder Oaks

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/ces-devotionals/2007/01?lang=eng&vid=2484627484001

 

Earth—A Gift of Gladness - Ensign July 1991 - ensign

"Evidence for this global warming also comes from studies made by the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration, which analyzed records going back to 1860." 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/07/earth-a-gift-of-gladness?lang=eng

 

- FYI: For Your Information - New Era July 1991 - new-era

"The greenhouse effect is what keeps our planet warm. Natural gases in the atmosphere form a sort of blanket over the earth’s surface that lets sunlight in and prevents heat from escaping (like the glass in a greenhouse). There’s a problem, however, when we add too many gases to that natural blanket. Then lifegiving sunlight is blocked out (as you’ve seen on a smoggy day), and temperatures can rise to ecologically harmful levels. How do we add gases? By burning fossil fuels such as coal, oil, and natural gas; by using aerosol cans; and by filling landfills, which release gases into the air as the garbage degrades. We can’t cut those activities out altogether, but we can be more careful about how we do them." 

https://www.lds.org/new-era/1991/07/fyi-for-your-information?lang=eng

 

- Our Deteriorating Environment - Ensign Aug. 1971

"Sulfur from industrial processing and burning of fossil fuels such as coal and gasoline is one of the most poisonous components of smog" 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/08/our-deteriorating-environment?lang=eng

 

"Latter-day Saints believe in applying the best available scientific knowledge" - Elder Oaks 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng

Edited June 18, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[thesometimesaint]

My question here is our methods of measuring ancient CO2. We had no instruments back then to measure so how can we say with complete accuracy what it was. Ice core bubble testing is fraught with issues  Ice melts and forms again and again. Climates eb and flow.

 

Do you really think that any scientist is going to continue to use measuring techniques that have been proven fraught with issues.

http://climatechange.umaine.edu/icecores/IceCore/Ice_Core_101.html

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331.full

[thesometimesaint]

The Church does not:

Endorse, promote or oppose political parties, candidates or platforms.

Allow its church buildings, membership lists or other resources to be used for partisan political purposes.

Attempt to direct its members as to which candidate or party they should give their votes to. This policy applies whether or not a candidate for office is a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Attempt to direct or dictate to a government leader.

http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/official-statement/political-neutrality

 

2007 CES Devotional 

"Every day we are assaulted with big worries: global warming...But as serious as all this is" - Elder Oaks

https://www.lds.org/broadcasts/watch/ces-devotionals/2007/01?lang=eng&vid=2484627484001

 

Earth—A Gift of Gladness - Ensign July 1991 - ensign

"Evidence for this global warming also comes from studies made by the U.S. National Aeronautics and Space Administration, which analyzed records going back to 1860." 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1991/07/earth-a-gift-of-gladness?lang=eng

 

- FYI: For Your Information - New Era July 1991 - new-era

"The greenhouse effect is what keeps our planet warm. Natural gases in the atmosphere form a sort of blanket over the earth’s surface that lets sunlight in and prevents heat from escaping (like the glass in a greenhouse). There’s a problem, however, when we add too many gases to that natural blanket. Then lifegiving sunlight is blocked out (as you’ve seen on a smoggy day), and temperatures can rise to ecologically harmful levels. How do we add gases? By burning fossil fuels such as coal, oil, and natural gas; by using aerosol cans; and by filling landfills, which release gases into the air as the garbage degrades. We can’t cut those activities out altogether, but we can be more careful about how we do them." 

https://www.lds.org/new-era/1991/07/fyi-for-your-information?lang=eng

 

- Our Deteriorating Environment - Ensign Aug. 1971

"Sulfur from industrial processing and burning of fossil fuels such as coal and gasoline is one of the most poisonous components of smog" 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1971/08/our-deteriorating-environment?lang=eng

 

"Latter-day Saints believe in applying the best available scientific knowledge" - Elder Oaks 

https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2010/04/healing-the-sick?lang=eng

 

I've never claimed to speak for the Church, and I certainly don't tell the Church what it has to teach. So I still don't understand what was political about my post.

To me we can reject science and move back into the caves, or we can reject religion and wish we were back in the caves.

"Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind."

Albert Einstein

[MormonFreeThinker]

So I still don't understand what was political about my post.

 

 

Nothing, I was trying to tell you that. 

 

Science deniers think that Science is political. 

Edited June 18, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[thesometimesaint]

Nothing, I was trying to tell you that. 

 

Science deniers think that Science is political. 

 

Thank you. But obviously a Mod thought it was political. I'm just trying to understand why.

[MormonFreeThinker]

Thank you. But obviously a Mod thought it was political. I'm just trying to understand why.

 

and I cannot understand why so many fellow LDS think that anthropogenic global warming is a hoax. 

So many scientific organizations in the world (nonpartisan) agree that it is real

See http://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php

 

"The first is the scientific method. It can require analysis of data to confirm a theory or, alternatively, establish a valid principle through experimentation. The scientific method is a valuable way of seeking truth." - Elder Richard Scott 

Edited June 18, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[maxrep12]

and I cannot understand why so many fellow LDS think that anthropogenic global warming is a hoax. 

So many scientific organizations in the world (nonpartisan) agree that it is real

See http://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php

 

"The first is the scientific method. It can require analysis of data to confirm a theory or, alternatively, establish a valid principle through experimentation. The scientific method is a valuable way of seeking truth." - Elder Richard Scott 

I certainly have noticed this over the years as well, generally(bold). I would be curious if anyone would like to offer their opinion as to why this is. Personally, I think I understand a couple of root causes at play here.

[ERayR]

Do you really think that any scientist is going to continue to use measuring techniques that have been proven fraught with issues.

http://climatechange.umaine.edu/icecores/IceCore/Ice_Core_101.html

http://www.pnas.org/content/97/4/1331.full

 

Yuuup!

[ERayR]

Global Warming is such an emerging scientific fact. Climates do change over time. CO2 holds heat. The more CO2 added over time the more heat is held. The amount of CO2 now in the air is greater than in anytime in the last 600,000 years. It is hubristic in the extreme to imagine that those facts will have no effect on the things that live on our planet, including us.

 

 

 

That much huh.  Color me skeptical.  I think I heard that volcanoes produce a lot of CO2 and We have had some very active periods of volcanoes  in the much more recent past.  I am told that a mere 12,000 years ago was one of those catastrophic periods.

[MormonFreeThinker]

That much huh.  Color me skeptical.  I think I heard that volcanoes produce a lot of CO2 and We have had some very active periods of volcanoes  in the much more recent past.  I am told that a mere 12,000 years ago was one of those catastrophic periods.

 

U.S. Geological Survey

 

"Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011)"

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

[Tiki]

U.S. Geological Survey

 

"Do the Earth’s volcanoes emit more CO2 than human activities? Research findings indicate that the answer to this frequently asked question is a clear and unequivocal, “No.” Human activities, responsible for a projected 35 billion metric tons (gigatons) of CO2 emissions in 2010 (Friedlingstein et al., 2010), release an amount of CO2 that dwarfs the annual CO2 emissions of all the world’s degassing subaerial and submarine volcanoes (Gerlach, 2011)"

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

If human activity causes or emits more pollutants than volcanoes, then why hasn't the earth cooled?

The 1815 eruption of Mt. Tambora in present-day Indonesia resulted in the 1816 Year without a Summer:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

As you can read, this cold spell is attributed to why Joseph Smith Sr.'s farm failed and his moving from Vermont to New York.

"According to historian L.D. Stillwell, Vermont alone experienced a drop of between 10,000 and 15,000 people, erasing seven previous years of population growth.[5] Among those who left Vermont were the family of Joseph Smith, who moved from Sharon, Vermont, to Palmyra, New York.[25] This move precipitated the series of events that culminated in the publication of the Book of Mormon and the founding of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

That's right, because the US Geological Survey is under the Executive Branch.

[MormonFreeThinker]

If human activity causes or emits more pollutants than volcanoes, then why hasn't the earth cooled?

The 1815 eruption of Mt. Tambora in present-day Indonesia resulted in the 1816 Year without a Summer:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year_Without_a_Summer

 

 

What is the difference between weather and climate? You don't think that other factors were involved? 

So you (and your Evangelical "experts") think you know more than the climate scientist? 

 

Obviously you didn't read the U.S. Geological Survey article, the answer is there 

"But volcanic gases like sulfur dioxide can cause global cooling, while volcanic carbon dioxide, a greenhouse gas, has the potential to promote global warming." 

http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/climate.php

 

Don't make arguments without reading the stuff first. 

 

Worldwide Scientific Organizations that Hold the Position That Climate Change Has Been Caused by Human Action

http://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php

Edited June 19, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[sunstoned]

I still can't tell if you're for real.

I believe he is joking. 

[thesometimesaint]

That much huh.  Color me skeptical.  I think I heard that volcanoes produce a lot of CO2 and We have had some very active periods of volcanoes  in the much more recent past.  I am told that a mere 12,000 years ago was one of those catastrophic periods.

 

It is not volcanoes.

SEE

[Rob Osborn]

I believe he is joking.

No Jokes here

[Robert F. Smith]

MormonFreeThinker, on 18 Jun 2014 - 3:46 PM, said:

and I cannot understand why so many fellow LDS think that anthropogenic global warming is a hoax. 

So many scientific organizations in the world (nonpartisan) agree that it is real

See http://opr.ca.gov/s_...ganizations.php

 

"The first is the scientific method. It can require analysis of data to confirm a theory or, alternatively, establish a valid principle through experimentation. The scientific method is a valuable way of seeking truth." - Elder Richard Scott 

I certainly have noticed this over the years as well, generally(bold). I would be curious if anyone would like to offer their opinion as to why this is. Personally, I think I understand a couple of root causes at play here.

Since a large percentage of American Mormons share a common political ideology, and since that ideology is associated with attacks on anthropogenic global warming (based on propaganda funded largely by the fossil fuel industry), it should be no surprise that Mormons also buy such attacks without bothering to examine the empty assumptions on which they are based.  It is a socio-cultural phenomenon.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Robert F. Smith

[strappinglad]

1. Climate change is real

2. That man is the ONLY cause is highly debatable

3.That man is a contributor to the problem is reasonable

4. That when all is said and done , much more will be said than done is guaranteed

5. That any proposals to solve the situation will ,if implemented ,damage first world nations

to the benefit of emerging powers which will talk a good game and continue their march unencumbered

by any real action.

6. Good luck trying to convince people to change their lifestyle in any timely manner,note obesity.

[MormonFreeThinker]

 

MormonFreeThinker, on 18 Jun 2014 - 3:46 PM, said:

it should be no surprise that Mormons also buy such attacks without bothering to examine the empty assumptions on which they are based.  It is a socio-cultural phenomenon.

 

 

but that is sad, that is not what God wants, Elder Oaks said, "Latter-day Saints believe in applying the best available scientific knowledge" 

 

and there are Republicans that do believe climate change is real, so Climate Change is not a political topic. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[MormonFreeThinker]

2. That man is the ONLY cause is highly debatable

 

 

See

http://opr.ca.gov/s_listoforganizations.php

http://climate.nasa.gov/scientific-consensus

 

Where is the debate? 

Perhaps not the "Only", but the most significant. 

Edited June 20, 2014 by MormonFreeThinker

[thesometimesaint]

1. Climate change is real

2. That man is the ONLY cause is highly debatable

3.That man is a contributor to the problem is reasonable

4. That when all is said and done , much more will be said than done is guaranteed

5. That any proposals to solve the situation will ,if implemented ,damage first world nations

to the benefit of emerging powers which will talk a good game and continue their march unencumbered

by any real action.

6. Good luck trying to convince people to change their lifestyle in any timely manner,note obesity.

 

1. True.

 

2. No scientist is claiming that.

 

3 True.

 

4. Unfortunately probably true.

 

5. Not true. Every pollution control invention has helped the scientifically advanced countries far more than the less scientifically advanced ones. The future is clean and bright for those that have the knowledge and wisdom to use it.

 

6. Throwing up your hands and doing nothing because you failed in some other area. Is not a recipe for success, but of disaster.

 

Political