MormonFreeThinker Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 Fairmormon is not an honest group. They are biased and often misrepresent the churches official teachings, especially regarding anything that doesnt jive with mainstream science. "Here’s one small example. Matthew Roper, in a FairMormon Blog" -—Elder D. Todd Christofferson, "The Prophet Joseph Smith", Devotional Address, BYU Idaho, September 24, 2013http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2013_9_24_Christofferson.htm Michael Otterson, Managing Director of the Public Affairs Department of the Church, talks about FAIRMORMON in Official Church video, See 2:15http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUvFTQu5nY No official endorsement, but 2013 FAIR Conference: Defending the Faith (Official Church News)https://www.lds.org/church/news/2013-fair-conference-defending-the-faith?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/church/news/apologetics-share-effective-ways-to-defend-lds-faith?lang=eng Dishonest about "no death before the Fall" not doctrine? "The existence of these animals is indisputable, for their remains have been found in rocks all over the earth. What eternal purpose they played in the creation and early history of the earth is unknown. The scriptures do not address the question, and it is not the realm of science to explore the issue of why they were here. We can only conclude, as Elder Talmage did, that “the whole series of chalk deposits and many of our deep-sea limestones contain the skeletal remains of animals. These lived and died, age after age, while the earth was yet unfit for human habitation.” (“The Earth and Man.”)" - I Have a Question - Ensign Sept. 1987 - ensignhttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/09/i-have-a-question?lang=eng "Involved in this question is that of the beginning of life upon the earth, and as to whether there was death either of animal or plant before the fall of Adam, on which proposition Elder Smith was very pronounced in denial and Elder Roberts equally forceful in the affirmative. As to whether Preadamite races existed upon the earth there has been much discussion among some of our people of late. The decision reached by the First Presidency, and announced to this morning's assembly, was in answer to a specific question that obviously the doctrine of the existence of races of human beings upon the earth prior to the fall of Adam was not a doctrine of the Church; and, further, that the conception embodied in the belief of many to the effect that there were no such Preadamite races, and that there was no death upon the earth prior to Adam's fall is likewise declared to be no doctrine of the Church. I think the decision of the First Presidency is a wise one in the premises. This is one of the many things upon which we cannot preach with assurance and dogmatic assertions on either side are likely to do harm rather than good"- Elder James Edward Talmage, Personal Journal (7 April 1931) 29:42, Archives and Manuscripts, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah We have FairMormon members on this board. We do not tolerate having posters called liars. I see nothing here from FairMormon anyway.
Calm Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) Scott Lloyd has been a faithful attender at FM conferences for years and reported them in the Church News each time (save for maybe one or two where it was decided the DesertNews Mormon section was sufficient IIRC).While not an official endorsement (we definitely don't want that type of role) I think it falls in line with the Church recognising other members' attempts to put their faith into action in charitable ways through fundraising efforts to help the poor or providing cleanup aid after disasters or helping literacy efforts. Edited June 13, 2014 by calmoriah
cinepro Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) "Here’s one small example. Matthew Roper, in a FairMormon Blog" -—Elder D. Todd Christofferson, "The Prophet Joseph Smith", Devotional Address, BYU Idaho, September 24, 2013http://www2.byui.edu/Presentations/Transcripts/Devotionals/2013_9_24_Christofferson.htm Michael Otterson, Managing Director of the Public Affairs Department of the Church, talks about FAIRMORMON in Official Church video, See 2:15http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSUvFTQu5nY No official endorsement, but 2013 FAIR Conference: Defending the Faith (Official Church News)https://www.lds.org/church/news/2013-fair-conference-defending-the-faith?lang=enghttps://www.lds.org/church/news/apologetics-share-effective-ways-to-defend-lds-faith?lang=eng Dishonest about "no death before the Fall" not doctrine? "The existence of these animals is indisputable, for their remains have been found in rocks all over the earth. What eternal purpose they played in the creation and early history of the earth is unknown. The scriptures do not address the question, and it is not the realm of science to explore the issue of why they were here. We can only conclude, as Elder Talmage did, that “the whole series of chalk deposits and many of our deep-sea limestones contain the skeletal remains of animals. These lived and died, age after age, while the earth was yet unfit for human habitation.” (“The Earth and Man.”)" - I Have a Question - Ensign Sept. 1987 - ensignhttps://www.lds.org/ensign/1987/09/i-have-a-question?lang=eng "Involved in this question is that of the beginning of life upon the earth, and as to whether there was death either of animal or plant before the fall of Adam, on which proposition Elder Smith was very pronounced in denial and Elder Roberts equally forceful in the affirmative. As to whether Preadamite races existed upon the earth there has been much discussion among some of our people of late. The decision reached by the First Presidency, and announced to this morning's assembly, was in answer to a specific question that obviously the doctrine of the existence of races of human beings upon the earth prior to the fall of Adam was not a doctrine of the Church; and, further, that the conception embodied in the belief of many to the effect that there were no such Preadamite races, and that there was no death upon the earth prior to Adam's fall is likewise declared to be no doctrine of the Church. I think the decision of the First Presidency is a wise one in the premises. This is one of the many things upon which we cannot preach with assurance and dogmatic assertions on either side are likely to do harm rather than good"- Elder James Edward Talmage, Personal Journal (7 April 1931) 29:42, Archives and Manuscripts, Harold B. Lee Library, Brigham Young University, Provo, Utah I guess it could be said that "Fairmormon" is about as honest in presenting the evidence as MormonFreeThinker is. Honestly, you're quoting from Elder Talmage's personal journal? Why not do a diligent search on the Church website to see what is taught about physical death on the planet before Adam's fall? Go ahead, and list all the statements you can find that explicitly contradict the idea, and all those that support it or acknowledge it might be a possibility. Then we might have a better idea about what the "Church" believes on the issue. Edited June 13, 2014 by cinepro 1
Zakuska Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 How is this thread "religiously based" other than the fact that it is speaking of a group of members of the church?
thesometimesaint Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 (edited) I guess it could be said that "Fairmormon" is about as honest in presenting the evidence as MormonFreeThinker is. Honestly, you're quoting from Elder Talmage's personal journal? Why not do a diligent search on the Church website to see what is taught about physical death on the planet before Adam's fall? Go ahead, and list all the statements you can find that explicitly contradict the idea, and all those that support it or acknowledge it might be a possibility. Then we might have a better idea about what the "Church" believes on the issue. There are more than enough public statements made on differing issues to reject your Ad Populum argument. Edited June 13, 2014 by thesometimesaint
cinepro Posted June 13, 2014 Posted June 13, 2014 There are more than enough public statements made on differing issues to reject your Ad Populum argument. Can you share your two or three favorite "public statements" that have been published by the Church acknowledging the possibility of physical death on the Earth before the Fall?
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