cdowis Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 (edited) Okay, how true is this? I heard on a MS podcast that no one has ever seen JS translate using the gold plates, and that there was a curtain or veil during the translation process, even when he was using a hat. Why would there need to be a veil if the plates weren't in the room?This is a summary of the translation method:https://www.lds.org/topics/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng Here are source documents from both witnesses and contemporary accountshttp://en.fairmormon.org/Book_of_Mormon/Translation/Method Basically he used both methods to do the translation, the U&T (viewing the plates) and the seer stone (in a hat). While it was necessary for him to be in possession of the plates, at some point in the translation process he was able to translate them without the physical presence of the plates. When using the seer stone, there was no veil because the plates were not physically present. Edited May 4, 2014 by cdowis 2
cdowis Posted May 4, 2014 Posted May 4, 2014 It was Palmer, he said not one person has claimed they've seen him translate using the plates.Just as a side note, he said he was first disciplined for telling his seminary students the mode for translating was using the stone and hat. One of students told their parents and they told the principal. Apparently truth wasn't useful back then. And that is what Palmer said, is it? May I suggest that there may be more to the story than his one-sided account. Perhaps he "forget" to give the full account of everything that he was teaching. Considering the quality of his research, "apparently truth wasn't useful" to his account. 1
Calm Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 It was Palmer, he said not one person has claimed they've seen him translate using the plates. Just as a side note, he said he was first disciplined for telling his seminary students the mode for translating was using the stone and hat. One of students told their parents and they told the principal. Apparently truth wasn't useful back then.Given of what I've read of Palmer, I would always doublecheck his claims and never just assume they were accurate. 2
Pahoran Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 It was Palmer, he said not one person has claimed they've seen him translate using the plates. Palmer was mistaken. He can be forgiven for that mistake (since he is neither an "insider" nor an expert in Church history) since it is a common misconception that there was a curtain or blanket hung up between Joseph and Martin Harris during the translation. In fact the blanket was hung up to provide a kind of partition so that the others in the house could go about their business without disturbing the work. Joseph and Martin were both on the same side of the partition. (It was a rather small house.) Just as a side note, he said he was first disciplined for telling his seminary students the mode for translating was using the stone and hat. One of students told their parents and they told the principal. Apparently truth wasn't useful back then. And apparently it still isn't. Mister Palmer was actually disciplined for circulating the early drafts of his anti-Mormon book. He did so under a pseudonym -- "Paul Pry Jr" -- taken from a well-known very early anti-Mormon writer. Palmer's authorship of the Paul Pry material eventually came to the notice of his employer. And since he was working directly against the interest of his employer, everyone not disposed to find fault with the Church of Jesus Christ will recognise that CES had a perfect right to deal with him. Regards, Pahoran 1
ALarson Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 Palmer was mistaken.Regards,PahoranI have read that Joseph Smith only used the Urim and Thummim to translate the lost 116 pages and that witnesses have stated that he used the "head in the hat" method with the peep stone for translating the Book of Mormon that we now have. Is that correct? I also know that the plates were buried in the woods while Joseph translated at Emma's parent's home. Maybe that's what Palmer is referring to? Pahoran, do you have statements from witnesses who saw Joseph Smith use the gold plates to translate the Book of Mormon (not the lost 116 pages)? I'll look for those too.
ALarson Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 See the references in post #51.Yes, I've seen those. Thanks. I do think it's correct that the Urim and Thummim were taken from Joseph after the 116 pages were lost and witness statements confirm that he used the seer stones in his hat to translate the Book of Mormon after that. At least that's what I remember reading. Do you agree or am I mistaken here? Of course that does not mean that Joseph didn't study the plates.
cdowis Posted May 5, 2014 Posted May 5, 2014 I think..... I don't know, but I would suppose that you are correct. I don't get into such details in church history
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