What Missionary Efforts Were Made To Convert Pre-Existing Population In America?

[Rob Osborn]

It flies in the face of a literal reading of scripture. Most LDS I know do not feel bound to accept a rigidly literal interpretation of scripture.

So when Joseph Smith revealed that the temporal age of the earth was to be 7,000 years he was just smoking crack heh?

[Rob Osborn]

I disagree with 1, 3, and 6 and find 7 to be hilarious.

Are you LDS?

[The Nehor]

It flat out flies in the face of revelation. The temporal age of the earth is around 6,000 years old. This means there was no death (temporal means dying) before roughly 6,000 years ago.

Not in the face of my revelations.

[The Nehor]

Are you LDS?

Yes, active, am an RM, and teach in Sunday School and in Priesthood. I have a testimony of the Savior, have received revelation, and am very active with missionary work in the ward.

[jkwilliams]

So when Joseph Smith revealed that the temporal age of the earth was to be 7,000 years he was just smoking crack heh?

Don't ask me what he was doing. I'm not a believer.

Oh, and btw, I remembered reading about your "soft tissue in bones" argument and recalled that the scientist who discovered it was aghast that YEC folks were misrepresenting her find. From the Smithsonian:

Young-earth creationists also see Schweitzer’s work as revolutionary, but in an entirely different way. They first seized upon Schweitzer’s work after she wrote an article for the popular science magazine Earth in 1997 about possible red blood cells in her dinosaur specimens. Creation magazine claimed that Schweitzer’s research was “powerful testimony against the whole idea of dinosaurs living millions of years ago. It speaks volumes for the Bible’s account of a recent creation.”

This drives Schweitzer crazy. Geologists have established that the Hell Creek Formation, where B. rex was found, is 68 million years old, and so are the bones buried in it. She’s horrified that some Christians accuse her of hiding the true meaning of her data. “They treat you really bad,” she says. “They twist your words and they manipulate your data.” For her, science and religion represent two different ways of looking at the world; invoking the hand of God to explain natural phenomena breaks the rules of science. After all, she says, what God asks is faith, not evidence. “If you have all this evidence and proof positive that God exists, you don’t need faith. I think he kind of designed it so that we’d never be able to prove his existence. And I think that’s really cool.”

[Rob Osborn]

Yes, active, am an RM, and teach in Sunday School and in Priesthood. I have a testimony of the Savior, have received revelation, and am very active with missionary work in the ward.

So you disbelieve in the flood of Noah and the division of the earth in Pelegs day?

[The Nehor]

And yet we have dinosaur soft tissue found in bones. That defys all of known science.

Did you learn that in the same place you learned that people used to think the world was flat?

[jkwilliams]

So you disbelieve in the flood of Noah and the division of the earth in Pelegs day?

Have you not met Mormons before who don't take these accounts literally? I know a lot more besides Nehor. Shoot, I used to be one of them.

[Rob Osborn]

Don't ask me what he was doing. I'm not a believer.

Oh, and btw, I remembered reading about your "soft tissue in bones" argument and recalled that the scientist who discovered it was aghast that YEC folks were misrepresenting her find. From the Smithsonian:

 

The fact remains that soft tissue was present, wasn't fossilized and absolutely not 65,000,000 years old according to known scientific means.

[Rob Osborn]

Did you learn that in the same place you learned that people used to think the world was flat?

The big difference was that they actually proved the world was round just as they proved it was indeed soft tissue. Looks like the 65 million year old thinkers are the flat-earthers nowdays. Funny how the tables turn...

[The Nehor]

So you disbelieve in the flood of Noah and the division of the earth in Pelegs day?

Nope, I believe there was a flood and Noah and his family packed some food and their herd's breeding stock into a barge, got a glowing Zohar stone, and rode it out. I have no reason to believe it was global. The strongest evidence that it was not was that Noah was not sure how pervasive the flood was. He sent birds out because he had no idea. If he wasn't sure why do we want to sound so sure we know?

[jkwilliams]

The fact remains that soft tissue was present, wasn't fossilized and absolutely not 65,000,000 years old according to known scientific means.

So, you're saying that the scientist who discovered the tissue is lying about the date? Do you know better than she does how old the fossils are? What she said in a different part of that article is that her discovery has led to some changes in the way scientists think about decay. It doesn't affect the dating, though the YEC crowd seems to think it does. I guess she was right when she said, "They twist your words and they manipulate your data.”

[Rob Osborn]

Have you not met Mormons before who don't take these accounts literally? I know a lot more besides Nehor. Shoot, I used to be one of them.

Sure but it goes against all of LDS doctrine.

[The Nehor]

The fact remains that soft tissue was present, wasn't fossilized and absolutely not 65,000,000 years old according to known scientific means.

Stop reading quack science and read what the researcher actually reported. Some Christian nutjob with no background in science read the article and either in their ignorance (charitable reading) or needing evidence and making it up (more probable reading) started screaming this from a pulpit or silly magazine and it caught on.

[Rob Osborn]

Nope, I believe there was a flood and Noah and his family packed some food and their herd's breeding stock into a barge, got a glowing Zohar stone, and rode it out. I have no reason to believe it was global. The strongest evidence that it was not was that Noah was not sure how pervasive the flood was. He sent birds out because he had no idea. If he wasn't sure why do we want to sound so sure we know?

Why even build such a large ship if it was local and you have 120 years in preparation for it? You could migrate anywhere in the world by land in that time along with all the animals. Was Noah just a shmuck of an idiot?

[jkwilliams]

I hadn't seen this before, but a recent article explains why the soft tissue was fossilized intact.

http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html

Iron is an element present in abundance in the body, particularly in the blood, where it is part of the protein that carries oxygen from the lungs to the tissues. Iron is also highly reactive with other molecules, so the body keeps it locked up tight, bound to molecules that prevent it from wreaking havoc on the tissues.

After death, though, iron is let free from its cage. It forms minuscule iron nanoparticles and also generates free radicals, which are highly reactive molecules thought to be involved in aging.

"The free radicals cause proteins and cell membranes to tie in knots," Schweitzer said. "They basically act like formaldehyde."

Formaldehyde, of course, preserves tissue. It works by linking up, or cross-linking, the amino acids that make up proteins, which makes those proteins more resistant to decay.

Schweitzer and her colleagues found that dinosaur soft tissue is closely associated with iron nanoparticles in both the T. rex and another soft-tissue specimen from Brachylophosaurus canadensis, a type of duck-billed dinosaur. They then tested the iron-as-preservative idea using modern ostrich blood vessels. They soaked one group of blood vessels in iron-rich liquid made of red blood cells and another group in water. The blood vessels left in water turned into a disgusting mess within days. The blood vessels soaked in red blood cells remain recognizable after sitting at room temperature for two years.

[jkwilliams]

Why even build such a large ship if it was local and you have 120 years in preparation for it? You could migrate anywhere in the world by land in that time along with all the animals. Was Noah just a shmuck of an idiot?

I thought it was a given that sometimes God commands people to do things that might not make sense so that they can learn something from it.

[The Nehor]

Sure but it goes against all of LDS doctrine.

Keep it under your hat but I have it on good authority that if this is apostate I know that several Apostles and Seventies agree with me. Secret combinations are taking over the church. Soon we will control everything. Mwahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha!

[Rob Osborn]

So, you're saying that the scientist who discovered the tissue is lying about the date? Do you know better than she does how old the fossils are? What she said in a different part of that article is that her discovery has led to some changes in the way scientists think about decay. It doesn't affect the dating, though the YEC crowd seems to think it does. I guess she was right when she said, "They twist your words and they manipulate your data.”

Whose trying to manipulate the data? Heck, creationists have been dating dinosaur bones for decades and all of them return dates in the thousands, not millions of years old. So whos really manipulating who?

[jkwilliams]

Whose trying to manipulate the data? Heck, creationists have been dating dinosaur bones for decades and all of them return dates in the thousands, not millions of years old. So whos really manipulating who?

And creationists have no agenda behind such dating that flies in the face of all other scientific research.

[Rob Osborn]

Stop reading quack science and read what the researcher actually reported. Some Christian nutjob with no background in science read the article and either in their ignorance (charitable reading) or needing evidence and making it up (more probable reading) started screaming this from a pulpit or silly magazine and it caught on.

Let me repeat- "They found soft tissue in dinosaur bones" There is no known explanation by science to show why this carbonous material was preserved. So, its either magic or the dates are incorrect. So whose quack science am I to believe?

[Rob Osborn]

Keep it under your hat but I have it on good authority that if this is apostate I know that several Apostles and Seventies agree with me. Secret combinations are taking over the church. Soon we will control everything. Mwahahahahahaahahahahahahahahaha!

Just don't hook up with the tent city conspirators

[The Nehor]

Why even build such a large ship if it was local and you have 120 years in preparation for it? You could migrate anywhere in the world by land in that time along with all the animals. Was Noah just a shmuck of an idiot?

By local I do not mean one zip code. Most likely they needed the experience and needed to go somewhere else. To be out that long they probably were washed out into the ocean and landed somewhere else. Again, Noah did not know. It is also possible they needed the experience. Why did God let the saints haul the foundation of the Salt Lake Temple from a distant quarry and then have the whole thing crack so they had to start over?

[jkwilliams]

Let me repeat- "They found soft tissue in dinosaur bones" There is no known explanation by science to show why this carbonous material was preserved. So, its either magic or the dates are incorrect. So whose quack science am I to believe?

I just linked to an article explaining why this happened. No magic needed, and no incorrect dates.

If you're going to go with the creationists in manipulating this research, at least have the decency to read the relevant literature.

[Rob Osborn]

I hadn't seen this before, but a recent article explains why the soft tissue was fossilized intact.

http://www.livescience.com/41537-t-rex-soft-tissue.html

 

Now, if we only had another 65,000,000 years to validate the theory it would be something to behold indeed. Thats whats wrong with science- they set up parameters, hypothesis and theory that cant be falsified. Shouldnt even be theory under those guidelines.