Homosexuality In Media

[jkwilliams]

What you just said is certainly the sentiment, and oft stated argument of pedophilia organizations. Like with the homosexual movement, pedophiles are fond of harking back to ancient cultures, particularly the Greeks.

 

I, on the other hand, welcome social evolution, and would just as soon not revert to times when what is generally consider today as child abouse (sexual or otherwise) was considered the norm way back when.

 

You, of course, are free to think otherwise.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Once again, we're treated to the unsubtle suggestion that homosexuality is akin to pedophilia. Lovely.

[wenglund]

It was interesting when it came out in Gospel Doctrine class on Sunday that Abraham married his half-sister Sarah.  Nobody seemed to have an issue with that.

 

...not to mention the daughters of Lot "laying" with their father.

 

As repugnant as this may seem to me and others in today's culture, things were different back then, and gratefully we have progressed socially and morally since then, and there isn't much that can be done about what happened several thousand years later. So, there would be no point in making it an issue in Sunday School. There are much better uses of that time.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 25, 2014 by wenglund

[wenglund]

Once again, we're treated to the unsubtle suggestion that homosexuality is akin to pedophilia. Lovely.

 

You are certainly free to draw a much greater kinship than my relatively nominal link to a shared fondness for a given culture, but that would be you doing so, and not me. Nothing I said could reasonably be interpreted as suggesting that "homosexuality is akin to pedophilia." Putting those words in my mouth is anything but "lovely."

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 25, 2014 by wenglund

[jkwilliams]

You are certainly free to draw a much greater kinship than my relatively nominal link to a shared fondness for a given culture, but that would be you doing so, and not me. Nothin I said could reasonably be interpreted as suggesting that "homosexuality is akin to pedophilia." Putting those words in my mouth is anything but "lovely."

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Well, then, please explain to me why you think they have a shared fondness for that culture.

[wenglund]

So your claim here is that legally married gay couples are more promiscuous than non-married gay couples?

 

No. Obviously.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[rockpond]

...not to mention the daughters of Lot "laying" with their father.

 

As repugnant as this may seem to me and others in today's culture, things were different back then, and gratefully we have progress socially and morally since then, and there isn't much that can be done about what happened several thousand years later. So, there would be no point in making it an issue in Sunday School. There are much better uses of that time.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

We've progressed socially and morally such that we can view incestuous relationships in the Bible with the appropriate context and nuance.  But heaven forbid we take a similarly progressive view of the statements on homosexuality.

[jkwilliams]

No. Obviously.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

So, please explain the causal relationship between legalizing same-sex marriages and the increase in promiscuity. You've been claiming it's an unintended consequence, meaning that there must be some causal relationship.

[wenglund]

Well, then, please explain to me why you think they have a shared fondness for that culture.

 

They each like different things about the same culture, and have highlighted those respective likes in support of their respective causes. Obviously.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[jkwilliams]

They each like different things about the same culture, and have highlighted those respective likes in support of their respective causes. Obviously.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

By "different things" what do you mean? Seems to me you're linking tolerance of pedophilia and tolerance of homosexuality as being the reasons gays and pedophiles are fond of that culture. Did you mean something else?

[wenglund]

So, please explain the causal relationship between legalizing same-sex marriages and the increase in promiscuity. You've been claiming it's an unintended consequence, meaning that there must be some causal relationship.

 

I didn't say there was an increase in promiscuity. Rather, I reported on an increase in promiscuity-related health issue. Do you understand the difference?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 25, 2014 by wenglund

[jkwilliams]

I didn't say there was an increase in promiscuity. Rather, I report on an increase in promiscuity-related health issue. Do you understand the diffeerence?

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

So, the increase in promiscuity-related health issues isn't related to an increase in promiscuity.

[wenglund]

By "different things" what do you mean? Seems to me you're linking tolerance of pedophilia and tolerance of homosexuality as being the reasons gays and pedophiles are fond of that culture. Did you mean something else?

 

What I mean is, homosexuals like homosexual things about the Greek culture, and pedophiles like pedophilic things about the Greek culture. Thus, they like different things about the Greek culture. And, so, whatever tolerance they may respectively wish to envoke by appeal to the Greek culture, will be different. Obviously--and quite the contrary to the misinterpretation you seem intent on imposing on what I said.

 

This isn't to say that there isn't plenty of room to reasonably establish a greater overlap between homosexuality and pedophilia. There is--though for another time and place. However, my comment wasn't intended, and can't reasonaby be interpreted, as going there.

 

I am very aware of the sensitivity of homosexuals and homosexual advocates to such correlations, and the tendency to use such correlations to rally censorship of opposing views (not that this would apply to you). And, so, I am overly cautious, particularly on this board, in what I say in that regard.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

So, the increase in promiscuity-related health issues isn't related to an increase in promiscuity.

 

It is possible that there is more promiscuity, and it is also possible that there is less protected promiscuity. Since I am not in a position to determine the degree to which either or other possibilities apply, I choose not to say exactly, but prefer instead to simply point out what is known.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

[rockpond]

It is possible that there is more promiscuity, and it is also possible that there is less protected promiscuity. Since I am not in a position to determine the degree to which either or other possibilities apply, I choose not to say exactly, but prefer instead to simply point out what is known.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

 

But is it known that there is an increase in STD's among gay married couples as opposed to unmarried gay couples?

[jkwilliams]

It is possible that there is more promiscuity, and it is also possible that there is less protected promiscuity. Since I am not in a position to determine the degree to which either or other possibilities apply, I choose not to say exactly, but prefer instead to simply point out what is known.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-.

In other words, you have no evidence there is a correlation between these health issues and the legalization of same-sex marriage. In that case, you can't say it's an unintended consequence of same-sex marriage.

[wenglund]

But is it known that there is an increase in STD's among gay married couples as opposed to unmarried gay couples?

 

I have no idea. But, then, I made no such claim. Rather, I spoke only to the general homosexual population, of which relatiely few married couples are a part..

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[jkwilliams]

I have no idea. But, then, I made no such claim. Rather, I spoke only to the general homosexual population, of which relatiely few married couples are a part..

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Again, as you've shown no causal relationship (and apparently are no longer even claiming such), you can't call this an unintended consequence of same-sex marriage.

 

I lost some weight this last year. I also bought a new car. So, one of the unintended consequences of my weight loss is the purchase of a new car.

[wenglund]

In other words, you have no evidence there is a correlation between these health issues and the legalization of same-sex marriage. In that case, you can't say it's an unintended consequence of same-sex marriage.

 

The fact that I can't exactly determine whether or the degree to which the increase in STD's folowing legalized SSM were due to increased promiscuity or increased unprotected promiscuity, doesn't mean a reasonable correlation can't be logically induced.

 

You , of course, are free to think otherwise.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[jkwilliams]

The fact that I can't exactly determine whether or the degree to which the increase in STD's folowing legalized SSM were due to increased promiscuity or increased unprotected promiscuity, doesn't mean a reasonable correlation can't be logically induced.

 

You , of course, are free to think otherwise.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

It's not about "exactly" determining. You haven't made a reasonable correlation at all between promiscuity and same-sex marriage. All you've done is shown that same-sex marriages have been legalized in a few places and that in the larger gay community, STDs are on the rise. Of course, I'm not bothering to dispute your assertions--why, I don't know--but you've shown no correlation, no causation, nothing. As long as you can't connect the two, there's no reasonable correlation. Just two random facts like losing 15 lbs. and buying a Honda.

[wenglund]

Again, as you've shown no causal relationship (and apparently are no longer even claiming such), you can't call this an unintended consequence of same-sex marriage.

 

False. See above. See also HERE.

 

I lost some weight this last year. I also bought a new car. So, one of the unintended consequences of my weight loss is the purchase of a new car

 

False analogy.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

It's not about "exactly" determining. You haven't made a reasonable correlation at all between promiscuity and same-sex marriage. All you've done is shown that same-sex marriages have been legalized in a few places and that in the larger gay community, STDs are on the rise. Of course, I'm not bothering to dispute your assertions--why, I don't know--but you've shown no correlation, no causation, nothing. As long as you can't connect the two, there's no reasonable correlation. Just two random facts like losing 15 lbs. and buying a Honda.

 

My earlier comment wasn't intended as a disertation, but rather as a statement of belief. It was also a statement of belief that was made in response to a comment that was somewhat tangential to the topic of this thread, and which was likewise a statement of belief.

 

As such, the reason that no evidence was set forth for the respective beliefs by either party, was because at that point it wasn't necessary, nor reasonably expected, nor appropriate given its tangent..

 

Now, the fact that I didn't established a reasonable correlation at that time, or even in the few brief exchanges since then, doesn't logically mean that no reasonable correlation can or has been evinced.

 

As such, your repeated sweeping dismissals and false analogies are misplaced.

 

However, if you are interested, I provide argumentation HERE.

 

Feel free to challenge me on that point there.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited February 25, 2014 by wenglund

[jkwilliams]

False. See above. See also HERE.

 

 

False analogy.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

Wade, I will try to put this politely, but stringing together random statistics and then making unsubstantiated claims about those statistics does not causation demonstrate.

[wenglund]

Wade, I will try to put this politely, but stringing together random statistics and then making unsubstantiated claims about those statistics does not causation demonstrate.

 

Let me be equaly polite in saying that dogmaticly blinded failure to connect common-sensical statistical dots does not a reasonable dissmissal make.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[wenglund]

Regaurding the earlier skoffs in denial of a "gay agenda" manifest in the media and elsewhere, in addition to the evidentiary links I provided earlier, here are several more illuminating quotes:

 

"Homosexual activist Michelangelo Signorile, who writes periodically for The New York Times, summarizes the agenda in OUT magazine: ' ...to fight for same-sex marriage and its benefits and then, once granted, redefine the institution of marriage completely, to demand the right to marry not as a way of adhering to society's moral codes, but rather to debunk a myth and radically alter an archaic institution...The most subversive action lesbian and gay men can undertake--and one that would perhaps benefit all of society--is to transform the notion of family entirely.'  'Its the final tool with which to dismantle all sodomy statues, get education about homosexuality and AIDS into the public schools and in short to usher in a sea change in how society views and treats us.'" (Quoted HERE)

 

Lesbian journalist, Marsha Gesson, admits: “It’s a no-brainer that (homosexual activists) should have the right to marry, but I also think equally that it’s a no-brainer that the institution of marriage should not exist. … [F]ighting for gay marriage generally involves lying about what we are going to do with marriage when we get there — because we lie that the institution of marriage is not going to change, and that is a lie....The institution of marriage is going to change, and it should change. And again, I don’t think it should exist. And I don’t like taking part in creating fictions about my life. That’s sort of not what I had in mind when I came out thirty years ago." (Quoted HERE)

 

Mary Rice Hasson notes: "The truth is that the gay experience, dressed in the language of heterosexual normalcy, bears little resemblance to traditional marriage relationships. For some researchers, that’s exactly the point. They believe that gay relationships herald a long-overdue deconstruction of the meaning of 'marriage,' for gays and straights alike, away from the notion of sexual exclusivity and towards emotional bonding and 'open; sexual coupling, or tripling, or whatever..."(See HERE)

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[jkwilliams]

Let me be equaly polite in saying that dogmaticly blinded failure to connect common-sensical statistical dots does not a reasonable dissmissal make.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

One thing I have never associated with your unintended consequences is common sense.