Ahab Posted August 23, 2013 Posted August 23, 2013 And doesn't He say "have no beginning; they existed before, they shall have no end, they shall exist after, for they are bgnolaum, or eternal"? Wouldn't that mean these 2 spirits/persons (and hence all of us) are uncreated and co-eternal with God? So how could we "awake," or have any "first thoughts"? I think I already expained that. And I think you said you liked what I said. Do you need me to rephrase what I already told you? Let's take our Lord as an example of both a firstborn son of our Father in heaven as well as an eternal person/ spirit/ intelligence of the kind we refer to as God. Did he ever awake,or wake up? Did he ever have any first thoughts? It depends on our point of reference, doesn't it. From an eternal perspective, the "first thought" he had as the first begotten spirit son of our Father in heaven was a thought that our Father in heaven had already had before our Lord was begotten. And who had those thoughts before him? The Father of our Father in heaven, and many other people, too. But does that mean our Lord didn't ever have a first thought, considering the fact that his Father and his Father's Father had already had that thought? No. Just as when I first think of something that I hadn't thought about before has also been thought by my Father, and his Father before him, etc. I don't remember it but my Mom tells me the first word I ever spoke was "ball", so I'm thinking that some thought related to what a ball is was one of the first thoughts I ever had on this Earth. You know, relatively speaking, since I was about a year old when I first had that thought prompting me to utter that word. But my parents already knew what balls were before I first had that thought and uttered that word, so what was a first thought for me on this Earth was not a first thought to them and since I was/am a perpetuation of what they are and were I also get credit for that thought being a part of me even before I was born. And so it is with all of us. What we do or think for the first time has already been thought and talked about long before we were born while we were still an unbegotten part of our parents.
Questing Beast Posted August 24, 2013 Posted August 24, 2013 But aren't "we" uncreated and co-eternal with God? How could we have any "first thoughts"?The problem with Mormon theology, if taken alone and progressing no further with it, is that God the Father is only one of us. All of existing matter "always existed and cannot be created". There is no Cause of it, it just is. GtF is therefore as much a part of uncreated matter as any of us, and just as much baffled by how it could be as I am. I don't believe that concept for a minute. What is bigger than that concept is allowing that "God" Is Existence itself, instigating spacetime with creation, outside of it all, and seeing the whole of it infinitely increasing as a cosmic NOW moment. Words are inadequate. Inside of spacetime everything proceeds moment by moment forever. GtF manifests inside the world of humans (our universe) AS human, and being male and female, as the "Parents" of the human species and creators of the entire ball of wax baby. Each one of us comes into existence within the world of humans, having our mind's origin from "God In Total", but seeing him and her as our heavenly parents. Yet we conceive that they are only "God" manifesting for us as one of us. We grow from that first awareness of the self, forever. (All of this is my own speculation, YMMV and obviously will. We all vary, because we are all separate egocentric universes within the world of humans, connected to "God" and no other....)
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