inquiringmind Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 What does this mean?But this cannot be; we must come forth and stand before him in his glory, and in his power, and in his might, majesty, and dominion, and acknowledge to our everlasting ashame that all his bjudgments are just; that he is just in all his works, and that he is merciful unto the children of men, and that he has all power to save every man that believeth on his name and bringeth forth fruit meet for repentance. 16 And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second adeath, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal bdeath, shall also cdie a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. (Alma 12:15-16.)If a temporal death is the separation of the soul and the body, how can anyone who comes forth in the resurrection die a temporal death?Is this saying that some will be resurrected and stripped of their bodies?
Darren10 Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 I read verse 16 as follows: "And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever die[d] in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness." In other words, anyone who "died in their sins" when they come up for eternal judgment shall suffer a spiritual death.
Darren10 Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) I also just read verse 18: "Then, I say unto you, they shall be as though there had been no redemption made; for they cannot be redeemed according to God’s justice; and they cannot die, seeing there is no more corruption." (bold mine). 'Corruption' is the book of Mormon wording for imperfect mortal bodies. So this verse is declaring that what you suggest as a possible doctrine will not happen. No one will die physically after the resurrection for there bodies are at that point perfect, or have, 'no more corruption'. At that point they can only die spiritually. Edited June 27, 2013 by Darren10
inquiringmind Posted June 27, 2013 Author Posted June 27, 2013 I read verse 16 as follows: "And now behold, I say unto you then cometh a death, even a second death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever die[d] in his sins, as to a temporal death, shall also die a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness." In other words, anyone who "died in their sins" when they come up for eternal judgment shall suffer a spiritual death.When is the time when anyone who dieth (or died) in their sins ast to a temporal death shall also die a spiritual death?Is that talking about the last generation of Nephites, or the last generation before the secound coming, or is it (I think as you read it) talking about the time of resurrection (and saying that anyone, of any past generation, who died in their sins back in their generation, and comes up in the resurrection will then die the spiritual death)?If the last, wouldn't that mean that no one who died in their sins could repent in spirit prison?
cdowis Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 (edited) temporal death == separation of spirit from bodyspiritual death == separation from God, lower kingdom tan the celestial kingdom.Did I miss something on your question? Edited June 27, 2013 by cdowis
CV75 Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 What does this mean?But this cannot be; we must come forth and stand before him in his glory, and in his power, and in his might, majesty, and dominion, and acknowledge to our everlasting ashame that all his bjudgments are just; that he is just in all his works, and that he is merciful unto the children of men, and that he has all power to save every man that believeth on his name and bringeth forth fruit meet for repentance.death, which is a spiritual death; then is a time that whosoever dieth in his sins, as to a temporal bdeath, shall also cdie a spiritual death; yea, he shall die as to things pertaining unto righteousness. (Alma 12:15-16.)If a temporal death is the separation of the soul and the body, how can anyone who comes forth in the resurrection die a temporal death?Is this saying that some will be resurrected and stripped of their bodies?No, is is saying that just as we all die a temporary death (the separation of the spirit and the body) and are brought to God to be judged (the physical resurrection brings us into His presence,or spiritual life), the wicked shall then, upon judgement, also suffer a spiritual death, which means they will no longer be in His presence.
Questing Beast Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 When is the time when anyone who dieth (or died) in their sins ast to a temporal death shall also die a spiritual death?Is that talking about the last generation of Nephites, or the last generation before the secound coming, or is it (I think as you read it) talking about the time of resurrection (and saying that anyone, of any past generation, who died in their sins back in their generation, and comes up in the resurrection will then die the spiritual death)?If the last, wouldn't that mean that no one who died in their sins could repent in spirit prison?Ah, you are taking note of the BoM doctrines and the dichotomy of LDS doctrine. Either the Nephites had an incomplete understanding, or JS got further along in his exegesis as time went by. I believe the latter.The "Mormon doctrine" that supposedly adds to BoM doctrine "seamlessly" (but does not, imho) says that these verses refer to the final judgment, i.e. that which takes place before the final resurrection, which is the resurrection of "the wicked". Now whether or not any individuals in that category accept the "missionaries" in the spirit prison, we do not know. We speculate. The doctrine of the "final judgment" says that it takes place after the millennium, before the Earth is celestialized. The BoM clearly, repeatedly states that if a man should be "cut off" , i.e. die, in the very thought of sin, he is lost forever: there is zero "work among the dead" in the BoM, that is so prevalent in LDS doctrine today. The BoM came forth long before JS even contemplated "work for the dead" in temples....
Ahab Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 Ah, you are taking note of the BoM doctrines and the dichotomy of LDS doctrine. Either the Nephites had an incomplete understanding, or JS got further along in his exegesis as time went by. I believe the latter.The "Mormon doctrine" that supposedly adds to BoM doctrine "seamlessly" (but does not, imho) says that these verses refer to the final judgment, i.e. that which takes place before the final resurrection, which is the resurrection of "the wicked". Now whether or not any individuals in that category accept the "missionaries" in the spirit prison, we do not know. We speculate. The doctrine of the "final judgment" says that it takes place after the millennium, before the Earth is celestialized. The BoM clearly, repeatedly states that if a man should be "cut off" , i.e. die, in the very thought of sin, he is lost forever: there is zero "work among the dead" in the BoM, that is so prevalent in LDS doctrine today. The BoM came forth long before JS even contemplated "work for the dead" in temples....The more you show you don't correctly put the pieces together the more hope I have that you will be someday understand.The Book of Mormon doesn't state that someone is lost forever if they have not repented when they die a mortal death.
Questing Beast Posted June 27, 2013 Posted June 27, 2013 The more you show you don't correctly put the pieces together the more hope I have that you will be someday understand.The Book of Mormon doesn't state that someone is lost forever if they have not repented when they die a mortal death.Just for thinking that little children require baptism will get you sent to hell if you are "cut off" in the thought. In the BoM hell is permanent. To get deliverance from hell, you have to read the D&C....
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