tyler90az Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 What do you think is/are the Cardinal Virtue or virtues?I would have to say it most resembles fortitude. The problem is that fortitude is having strength mental and emotional strength in adversity. The virtue I am thinking is more like complete emotional, mental and spiritual strength. That is being in complete control over ourselves. Maybe a closer word would be self-control. A better word for the virtue I am thinking of would be fortitied. A fully developed virtue of fortitied by somebody would be the mind/fort is subjected/tied to oneself.That would also be the exact opposite of selfishness the cardinal sin. There is no sin that does not start with selfishness. When you are selfish you are letting the natural man come out. You have lost control over yourself. The natural man has taken control.___When I say cardinal I mean all virtues or sin stem from it. That is why I would just say selfishness is sin and fortitied is righteousness.
3DOP Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 Hey tyler90az.In Catholic moral theology, there are four cardinal virtues and three theological virtues. The theological virtues are received only by grace and they are three: Faith, Hope, and Charity. That is why they are sometimes called supernatural virtues. Can't be gained without God. The cardinal virtues differ in that they may be obtained by anyone through character development. That is why they are sometimes called natural virtues. Nature provides the tools whereby we can grow in these virtues. You may not be familiar with expression, but if you ever have or do, this is what the Catholic Church means when it says "Grace builds on nature". It means that good natural virtues are a necessity if the life of grace is to thrive.My understanding is that the root of the Latin word for cardinal expresses the idea of a hinge. Other virtues can always be traced to have hinged on the four which I understand as more or less equally important: They are temperance, prudence, justice, and fortitude. Without these four moral qualities, other virtuous characteristics must be lacking. I have found it interesting to note that even people we would consider bad, to be successful, must exercise the cardinal virtues. All of history's prominent villains have necessarily exercised the cardinal virtues.Anyway...I know you probably weren't looking for dogmatic answers like this. This is one of my favorite subjects though. A thorough understanding of how the virtues interact and support each other can help us to pinpoint and work on weaknesses. I need more fortitude about that!I heartily agree that selfishness is at the root of every vice. But there are different ways that we let selfishness get entrenched in us and that is where knowledge of the different vices (different kinds of selfishness), can help us try to identify our weakness.Carry on tyleraz90! God bless your efforts.3DOP 2
tyler90az Posted April 22, 2013 Author Posted April 22, 2013 Very interesting! Glad to have a knowledgable Catholic on the board such as yourself. Any writings you would recommend on the three theological virtues?By the way, I have the Holy See as one of my bookmarks and really like Pope Francis. Catholicism is a great religion and has much truth!
CV75 Posted April 22, 2013 Posted April 22, 2013 What do you think is/are the Cardinal Virtue or virtues?I would say perfection, or wholeness and completeness, which is grace.Of course we can possess this virtue in degrees, while we depend on God for any measure of it we can possibly possess.
3DOP Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) Very interesting! Glad to have a knowledgable Catholic on the board such as yourself. Any writings you would recommend on the three theological virtues?By the way, I have the Holy See as one of my bookmarks and really like Pope Francis. Catholicism is a great religion and has much truth!Thank you tyler.Fr. Reginald Garrigou-Lagrange, O.P. is the author of a two volume work called The Three Ages of the Interior Life. Strictly speaking, this is a classic work about infused contemplation, but he necessarily includes large sections containing charts, tables, and explanations of how the seven theological and cardinal virtues (sometimes called "moral virtues") interact with the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost to gradually transform us unto the perfection without which we cannot appreciate or enjoy eternal life. I should be more of a practitioner and perhaps less of an egghead about it. But I find the psychology of it to be very convincing and faith affirming.Fr. Jordan Aumann, O.P. has authored a shorter work called simply Spiritual Theology. This shorter work explains most of the same concepts. "O.P." means Order of Preachers, otherwise known as Dominicans. St. Thomas Aquinas was a Dominican friar whose Summa Theologica is the primary source for both of these fellow Dominicans. The Summa is available online. Questions 49 to 70 are under the subheading "Habits", of the First Part of Second Part of the Summa is very thorough in laying out the psychological laws which Catholics believe govern all human beings.Incidentally, my peculiar handle, 3DOP, comes from the fact that when I first started out on this message board nearly ten years ago, I was a third order "3", Dominican "D", O.P., Order of Preachers. For various reasons I didn't make my permanent profession. However, I will always cherish and appreciate the way the great Dominican teachers have taken Scripture, Tradition, the lives of the saints, and even truths taught by high paganism (especially the cardinal virtues) to explain the path of spiritual perfection or degradation as the case may be. There may be distinctively Catholic notes in some of this that may be incompatible with your current views. I know that Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange has sections on the importance of our relations with God's Mother as well as our participation in Holy Communion. But on the whole, I am confident that all Christians may benefit from perusing the spiritual teachings as presented in the Dominican tradition which are of course, treasures belonging to the whole Catholic Church.You have to at least look at the content matter from the section of the Summa that deals with these questions. Right here:http://www.newadvent.org/summa/2.htmMore specifically, there are five articles associated with question 61 on the Cardinal Virtues:1) Whether the moral virtues should be called cardinal or principal virtues?2) Whether there are four cardinal virtues?3) Whether any other virtues should be called principal rather than these?4) Whether the four cardinal virtues differ from one another?5) Whether the cardinal virtues are fittingly divided into social virtues, perfecting, perfect, and exemplar virtues?Be careful. It can be fun to learn this stuff. Learning it is not applying it. Thanks for reminding me of that all important lesson as I realize that many better, more perfect souls than me have little ability to explain what is happening to them. One can be good without knowing why!http://www.newadvent.../summa/2061.htmRegards,3DOP Edited April 23, 2013 by 3DOP 1
Wanderer7 Posted April 23, 2013 Posted April 23, 2013 What do you think is/are the Cardinal Virtue or virtues?I would have to say it most resembles fortitude. The problem is that fortitude is having strength mental and emotional strength in adversity. The virtue I am thinking is more like complete emotional, mental and spiritual strength. That is being in complete control over ourselves. Maybe a closer word would be self-control. A better word for the virtue I am thinking of would be fortitied. A fully developed virtue of fortitied by somebody would be the mind/fort is subjected/tied to oneself.That would also be the exact opposite of selfishness the cardinal sin. There is no sin that does not start with selfishness. When you are selfish you are letting the natural man come out. You have lost control over yourself. The natural man has taken control.___When I say cardinal I mean all virtues or sin stem from it. That is why I would just say selfishness is sin and fortitied is righteousness.Very thought-provoking quote. What is the source of all good deeds? I like what CV75 said, grace. Ultimately, Christ is the source of all righteousness, and Satan is the source of all wickedness. John describes the main virtue of Christ as love. Which would make it the cardinal virtue, I suppose. However, I think what may have been more important in Christ's perfect life was His submissiveness. I would say that may be even more important than love because we really can't have love unless we first submit our will to the Father. IMO
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