Hawkins And The Creation

[cdowis]

Our universe didn't need any divine help to burst into being, famed cosmologist Stephen Hawking told a packed house here at the California Institute of Technology Tuesday night.

Hawking began the event by reciting an African creation myth, and rapidly moved on to big questions such as, Why are we here?

He noted that many people still seek a divine solution to counter the theories of curious physicists, and at one point, he quipped, “What was God doing before the divine creation? Was he preparing hell for people who asked such questions?”

After outlining the historical theological debate about how the universe was created, Hawking gave a quick review of more scientific cosmological explanations, including Fred Hoyle and Thomas Gold’s steady-state theory. This idea hypothesizes that there is no beginning and no end and that galaxies continue to form from spontaneously created matter.

Hawking said this theory and several other ideas don't hold up, citing recent observations by space telescopes and other instruments.

After giving a brief historical background on relativistic physics and cosmology, Hawking discussed the idea of a repeating Big Bang. He noted that in the 1980s, he and physicist Roger Penrose proved the universe could not “bounce” when it contracted, as had been theorized.

Therefore, time began at the moment of singularity, and this has likely occurred only once, Hawking said. The age of the universe — now believed to be about 13.8 billion years — fits that model, as the number and maturity of observed galaxies seem to fit in the general scheme.

In another observation of modern religion, Hawking noted that in the 1980s, around the time he released a paper discussing the moment the universe was born, Pope John Paul II admonished the scientific establishment against studying the moment of creation, as it was holy.

“I was glad not to be thrown into an inquisition,” Hawking joked.

He closed by outlining "M-theory," which is based partly on ideas put forward years ago by another famed physicist, Caltech’s Richard Feynman. Hawking sees that theory as the only big idea that really explains what he has observed.

M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained, with many possible histories and many possible states of existence. In only a few of these states would life be possible, and in fewer still could something like humanity exist. Hawking mentioned that he felt fortunate to be living in this state of existence.

http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/04/17/17797756-stephen-hawking-lays-out-case-for-big-bang-without-god?lite

[Glenn101]

"M-theory posits that multiple universes are created out of nothing, Hawking explained, with many possible histories and many possible states of existence. In only a few of these states would life be possible, and in fewer still could something like humanity exist. Hawking mentioned that he felt fortunate to be living in this state of existence."

Creation ex nihilo? Something out of nothing? My concrete mind has trouble with that. Spontaneous creation of something out of nothing is somehow more believeable than a Supreme Being, God if you will, creating the universe ex nihilo? (I don't believe that last either.)

"Hawking discussed the idea of a repeating Big Bang. He noted that in the 1980s, he and physicist Roger Penrose proved the universe could not “bounce” when it contracted, as had been theorized."

Yep, because of "dark energy".

Just my uninformed two cents worth.

Glenn

[Freedom]

This is sort of like speculating on whether or not Moses would have liked jellybeans if given the chance to eat some.

[CASteinman]

This thread should be killed in favor of the other one.

[Glenn101]

This thread should be killed in favor of the other one.

I think that this is a singularity. It was started by cdowis the same time that the other thread was started by cdowis, i.e. they were once the same thread, but a singularity split them.

Glenn

[CASteinman]

I think that this is a singularity. It was started by cdowis the same time that the other thread was started by cdowis, i.e. they were once the same thread, but a singularity split them.

Glenn

Oh... I see what you did there.

[Stone holm]

Read Hawkings book, found it singularly unconvincing. Nobody, really has an explanation for what precedes the Big Bang, I am not even completely sure we do given the implications of the King Follett Sermon, Snow's Couplet, and Eliza Snow's Hymn "if WeCould Hie Unto Kolob"

[Rob Osborn]

Hawking is having a great pipe dream, the kind that lasts decades.

[Stone holm]

Hawking is having a great pipe dream, the kind that lasts decades.

How so?

[Rob Osborn]

How so?

In the face of such astronomical facts regarding order, purpose and design, he muses that instead it just happened on its own....pipedream!

[Stone holm]

In the face of such astronomical facts regarding order, purpose and design, he muses that instead it just happened on its own....pipedream!

Oh. Well, he clearly hasn't demonstrated his point, not sure I would call him an opium addict, but he does seem to have convinced himself of something that is not readily obvious to anyone else and in the end fails to explain the first cause which most people, albeit not us Mormons, equate with God.

[thesometimesaint]

In the face of such astronomical facts regarding order, purpose and design, he muses that instead it just happened on its own....pipedream!

If it were ordered, purposed, and designed any differently how would we know?

[Stone holm]

If it were ordered, purposed, and designed any differently how would we know?

People sometimes confuse description with design. I personally prefer some of the wild-eyed ideas of Rupert Sheldrake especially his theory that all of the laws of physics evolved from one, namely habit. From that is derived the notion that if something happens one way once, that it is more likely to happen that same way in the future and the more it does, then it always does. That would fit nicely with the bumper sticker concept that "S[tuff] Happens." Which is a concept that I am beginning to believe in more and more, and find explains more and more as I grow older and cease to find some cosmic reason for everything that happens.

[thesometimesaint]

People sometimes confuse description with design. I personally prefer some of the wild-eyed ideas of Rupert Sheldrake especially his theory that all of the laws of physics evolved from one, namely habit. From that is derived the notion that if something happens one way once, that it is more likely to happen that same way in the future and the more it does, then it always does. That would fit nicely with the bumper sticker concept that "S[tuff] Happens." Which is a concept that I am beginning to believe in more and more, and find explains more and more as I grow older and cease to find some cosmic reason for everything that happens.

The design of the universe was decided less than a billionth of second after the Big Bang.

[Stone holm]

The design of the universe was decided less than a billionth of second after the Big Bang.

Well if so then a lot of things happened in a very, very short time. I guess the question we might ask did the law of gravity exist before there was any action for it to act upon?

[CASteinman]

Well if so then a lot of things happened in a very, very short time. I guess the question we might ask did the law of gravity exist before there was any action for it to act upon?

Not according to the Big Bang Theory.

I do not believe that theory.

[Stone holm]

Not according to the Big Bang Theory.

I do not believe that theory.

I don't know whether I believe it or not, I do believe it answers zero questions when it comes to Mormon Doctrine, it answers even fewer questions for us than it does for most. I kept waiting for him to give an explanation of how things got rolling without God, it was like watching a movie and expecting some big dramatic ending and instead it just stops, its like this pitcher who goes through this big wind up and then decides not to throw the ball.