Holy Ghost: Says Different Things To Different People?

[wenglund]

Oh come on! Basic doctrine- the HG does not confirm negatives. He tells you when you are on the right path- not confirming you are on the wrong path D&C 9

Good point, though I see this as the general rule, particularly when translating.

However, there may be some exceptions where, as it says in D&C 46:15-16, "And again, to some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the ^adifferences of administration, as it will be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will, suiting his ^bmercies according to the conditions of the children of men. And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, that the manifestations of the ^aSpirit may be given to every man to profit withal."

I read this as going beyond a stupor of thought to actually providing affirming or negating responses to certain questions. And, if so, then it may help were we to provide a viable explanation for when someone may receive what they believe to be a negative response to the questions: "Is the LDS Church true" and "Is the Book of Mormon true." Hopefully, I have done so above.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[canard78]

Nuanced! Oh I should have known. Sorry, that just an easy way to build a straw man argument. Remove the possibility that someone could be "wrong" and you have universal utopia... We are all right! Or perhaps it is "right for us" but not everyone. Sounds a lot like "it really does not matter what church you belong to, as long as you believe in Christ" oh wait a second what of the Muslims? The Buddhists? The Hindu's? What about the worshippers of idols? Let's not leave out the Atheists... they are good too! Yes the Black and white thinking gets in the way of those who want to say: "there is no sin, whatever a man does is no crime" Sure let us eat, drink and be merry! And if we die all will be well with us. There is no God today or if so He is the "unknown god"!

Yes lets take her for an example. She was a model of compassion and service and inspired many to do the same. How can we judge her? How can we be so sure she would not have embraced the restored Gospel with gladness? I do not condemn her good works, but could that excuse a person from attending to the ordinances that God has provided if it were made available? You are assuming a lot. The spirit world is not to give people a "second chance" because God botched it up in mortality! It is for those who would have received it with all their hearts it they had the chance in this life. The reason we do baptism for the dead is not to thwart people's agency, it is to make the Gospel available to ALL! Some circumstances make it impossible for some to get that chance in this life. Yes God does give each person what they are capable of receiving, but they still have the choice. When I was a young naive missionary I thought if I could show anyone that the Gospel was true then they should accept it. I soon learned that it does not work that way. First it is the spirit that teaches we are only the instrument God uses to proclaim His truth. Also I learned that if that person being taught did not receive it by the spirit then most often it did not happen. Also there is the unthinkable truth that not everyone WANTS THE TRUTH! That is why they harden or allow their hearts to be hardened against the restored Gospel of Christ. Traditions of their fathers and transgression take away light and truth.

So if I had a person ask me as a missionary or as just a member of the Church would God ever deny His word? Would He tell one that it is true and another that it is not true? NO WAY! If you will permit I will offer a "proof text" to support my opinion:

At first one might think that this states that God will lie... but on closer examination it was because of the individual's own blindness. They wanted to be blinded and thus God works according to their desires. Why do you think a third of God's children followed Satan? Was it because God wanted them to? No it was because of their own agency! So it is in this life. We must choose to believe, that is what Elder Holland was talking about this conference. If we want the Gospel to be false we will find it. Not because God told them that but because they listen to the wrong spirit. Satan is our adversary and he never leads anyone back to the father, in fact he tries to harden peoples heart and blind their minds so they will not believe or will only believe so much but no further. As long as we are in the flesh there is no "lost cause" and the spirit will reveal the truth to a willing mind and a sincere heart. The reason we are blessed with General Conference twice a year is so that not only the Church can hear the voice of living prophets and apostles but so the world can!

As for other churches and religions having some truth, of course but I also suggest there is a lot in those churches that are not true and not pleasing to God or why would he restore the church?

One more piece of Black and White thinking:

I believe this scripture has everything to do with what we are discussing in this thread, any spirit that says that Jesus Christ is accursed is not of God, in like manner any spirit that teaches that Joseph is a false prophet is not of God! Any spirit that would deny the Book of Mormon and the living prophet is not of God!

Here are the views of some of the prophets and leaders of our church on those other faiths you so quickly seem to dismiss:

Elder Orson F. Whitney of the Quorum of the Twelve (April 1928)

Perhaps the Lord needs such men on the outside of His Church to help it along... They are among its auxiliaries, and can do more good for the cause where the Lord has placed them, than anywhere else. … Hence, some are drawn into the fold and receive a testimony of the truth; while others remain unconverted … the beauties and glories of the gospel being veiled temporarily from their view, for a wise purpose. The Lord will open their eyes in His own due time. God is using more than one people for the accomplishment of His great and marvelous work. The Latter-day Saints cannot do it all. It is too vast, too arduous for any one people.

The above was requoted by President Benson and he also said:

God, the Father of us all, uses the men of the earth, especially good men, to accomplish his purposes. It has been true in the past, it is true today, it will be true in the future.

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1972/07/civic-standards-for-the-faithful-saints?lang=eng

Elder B.H. Roberts of the Seventy

“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men; and it is one of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth yet he is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. God raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend. … All the great teachers are servants of God; among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them.”

http://www.lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng

The first presidency (under President Kimball) in 1978 said:

“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals."

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1988/01/i-have-a-question?lang=eng

Elder Uchtdorf said:

Latter-day Saints believe that all human beings are God’s children and that He loves all of us. He has inspired not only people of the Bible and the Book of Mormon but other people as well to carry out His purposes through all cultures and parts of the world. God inspires not only Latter-day Saints but also founders, teachers, philosophers, and reformers of other Christian and non-Christian religions. The restored gospel holds a positive relationship with other religions. Intolerance is always a sign of weakness. The Latter-day Saint perspective is that of the eleventh article of faith: “We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may” (Articles of Faith 1:11).

http://rsc.byu.edu/archived/global-mormonism-21st-century/20-church-cross-cultural-world

[wenglund]

We shouldn't let the perfect become the enemy of the good.

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean or how it relates to the context of this thread? Could you please elucidate?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Ahab]

Sorry if I misunderstood you in my first post Ahab... but your quote above is what I was getting at.

I am positing that the HG DOES give contradictory revelation. Not "seemingly"contradictory but actual contradictory revelation. BUT... both revelations serve the same PURPOSE... to become more Christlike.

For example... Person A and Person B pray and ask if JS was a prophet of God that restored God's true church.

The HG tells Person A yes.

The HG tells Person B no.

Contradictory Answers. Period.

The HG purposes for both of these people was to make them more Christlike and lead them eventually back to God.

The HG told Person B "no" because the HG knew that if Person B received a witness of JS and the restored gospel and joined the church it would actually result in them being LESS Christlike and harm a number of other relationships close to them making other also LESS Christlike. So for this person, the HG told them "No." Later the HG may tell them "YES" but only when they are in different circumstances.

Can the Holy Ghost do that?

Or would you rephrase to say that the HG doesn't tell Person B "no" per say, but may answer with a "keep on looking" or some other answer that may steer Person B away from belief in JS as a prophet and belief that the LDS church is God's restored church, but the HG doesn't technically say "no" and therefor doesn't provide a contradictory answer.

My position is that the Holy Ghost won't give a contradictory answer to the same exact question in the same context.

Maybe it would help if instead of thinking of Person A and Person B, you instead think of the same person asking the same question in the same context. Do you believe the Holy Ghost would give the same person contradictory answers? If not then why would you think he would give 2 people contradictory answers?

One of the things I have found to be true concerning revelation from God is that other people have received the same answers I have received from God. Not that I rely on their testimony to know what God has said, but it just seems to work out that other people receive the same answers I get. Not everybody, but a lot of people.

For those who don't agree and say God has told them something contradictory to what he has told me, I just tell them that I don't rely on anyone else but God for my answers, which I don't, even when other people receive the same answers I get. As far as I'm concerned when someone tells me God has told them something it's just their opinion or their belief that God has told them that thing, whatever it is, and it's only when God tells me the same thing that I consider it to be a testimony from God. Which only makes good sense, I think.

What God tells me is his testimony to me, and what anyone else says is their own testimony, whether or not they agree with God.

[Ahab]

...Of the nominal few who receive a "no" answer, I suspect that either they didn't correctly interpret the answer, or they imposed on their own mind the answer, or they are lying, or they correctly interpreted the answer but the answer wasn't contradictory.

Good and I would also add to that:

... it wasn't our Father or our Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost or any of their messengers who gave them that negative answer, even though that person might have identified himself as God.

We should realize that when we're seeking to receive revelation from God we are leaving ourselves open to answers from both good and evil sources, so we still need to be careful about whose answers we choose to rely on.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel pretty confident that you're all receiving answers from both Satan AND God (our Father) through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. It's not like Satan doesn't ever say anything, so we need to learn how to distinguish the good from the evil person(s). And sometimes we can think something is good when it is evil.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Ahab

[wenglund]

Good and I would also add to that:

... it wasn't our Father or our Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost or any of their messengers who gave them that negative answer, even though that person might have identified himself as God.

We should realize that when we're seeking to receive revelation from God we are leaving ourselves open to answers from both good and evil sources, so we still need to be careful about whose answers we choose to rely on.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel pretty confident that you're all receiving answers from both Satan, as well as God (our Father) through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. It's not like he ever shuts up, so we need to learn how to distinguish the good from the evil person(s).

Agreed.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[canard78]

Good and I would also add to that:

... it wasn't our Father or our Lord Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost or any of their messengers who gave them that negative answer, even though that person might have identified himself as God.

We should realize that when we're seeking to receive revelation from God we are leaving ourselves open to answers from both good and evil sources, so we still need to be careful about whose answers we choose to rely on.

I don't know about you guys, but I feel pretty confident that you're all receiving answers from both Satan, as well as God (our Father) through Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. It's not like he ever shuts up, so we need to learn how to distinguish the good from the evil person(s).

I think we need to be very careful with this one. I would agree that some people feel motivated to do some really horrible things and even believe they do so in the name of god, I think this is a tiny minority.

I know you weren't drawing this conclusion as a generalisation but it's too easy to assume that everyone that we perceive to have got a "no" (relative to our position) has been deceived by satan.

[Ahab]

I think we need to be very careful with this one.

We need to be very careful about anything related to either God or Satan.

[thesometimesaint]

I am not sure what this is supposed to mean or how it relates to the context of this thread? Could you please elucidate?

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

As the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley said: We invite all, the whole earth, to listen to this account and take measure of its truth. God bless us as those who believe in His divine manifestations and help us to extend knowledge of these great and marvelous occurrences to all who will listen. To these we say in a spirit of love, bring with you all that you have of good and truth which you have received from whatever source, and come and let us see if we may add to it.

[wenglund]

As the Prophet Gordon B. Hinkley said: We invite all, the whole earth, to listen to this account and take measure of its truth. God bless us as those who believe in His divine manifestations and help us to extend knowledge of these great and marvelous occurrences to all who will listen. To these we say in a spirit of love, bring with you all that you have of good and truth which you have received from whatever source, and come and let us see if we may add to it.

I fully agree with this. However, I don't see how it fits your earlier statement. But, that is okay. The clarified meaning is what is important.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited April 16, 2013 by wenglund

[Alvino]

Alvino,

I think Canard has made himself quite clear on this, at least from what I've read. Yes, the HG can give contradictory information, even saying that JS is not a prophet, but he only says that because telling the pray-er JS in not a prophet is actually the best way to help that person become more Christlike and move them more towards God. So while the HG is providing contradictory information to people, the HG is never "misleading" anyone, rather is always leading them correctly and as fast as possible back to God using different paths.

I got that from what he wrote, yet, why shy away from saying the HG can tell me that JS was a false prophet? A bit strange, don't you think?

That the HG can tell false things so you get to more truth later on or faster is fine. That doesn't mean the HG didn't lie and it does mean that we have no reason on this front to think the HG is a reliable source of information, which is to grant the point to many disbelievers.

I don't want to put words into his mouth but I've stated things like this in my posts and Canard has given an unequivocal "yes" to my statements, so I'm not sure why you think he's dodging questions.

Well, all he does when I ask him is to say the issue isn't black and white when you and I think it is when the question is "Can the HG tell people false information?"

I'm am trying to figure out if the OP (Wade) was trying to say that or if it was something different since he always speaks of "seemingly" contradictory revelation. It seems that he may be in more of the camp that the HG does NOT provide contradictory information but could still encourage different paths (i.e. The HG would never tell someone that JS is Not a prophet, but may tell someone to not join the church and stay in their congregation. Technically not a contradiction).

Again, no problem there.

[Brian 2.0]

This isn't fully formulated so my apologies... But there seems to be another point that goes along with this discussion... And that is "how difficult is it to know what the HG is telling you."

The more one slides on the spectrum toward the idea that the HG gives highly personalized revelation, even to the point of sending people down paths that could be away for the church, but still for the betterment of the person (Canard's viewpoint)... this way has a HG that isn't extremely hard to understand. People are going all sorts of directions because the HG is sending people in all sorts of directions.

The more be slides the other way in that the HG inspires toward one set path... the more one view a HG that is more difficult to understand. People are going all sorts of directions because people are misunderstands/not listening to/or denying the promptings of the HG.

[mfbukowski]

Good point, though I see this as the general rule, particularly when translating.

However, there may be some exceptions where, as it says in D&C 46:15-16, "And again, to some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the ^adifferences of administration, as it will be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will, suiting his ^bmercies according to the conditions of the children of men. And again, it is given by the Holy Ghost to some to know the diversities of operations, whether they be of God, that the manifestations of the ^aSpirit may be given to every man to profit withal."

I read this as going beyond a stupor of thought to actually providing affirming or negating responses to certain questions. And, if so, then it may help were we to provide a viable explanation for when someone may receive what they believe to be a negative response to the questions: "Is the LDS Church true" and "Is the Book of Mormon true." Hopefully, I have done so above.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Oh yes- and I think you are right, and you have.

But that I think is for those who are fine-tuned to the spirit and not novices in such things- questions of ward administration, callings and so forth. When making callings in my experience, I did not ever get a "no"- it was just a lack of a "yes". In those cases, I think it was more of a question not of "who could do the job"- there may have been many perfectly capable of doing it, but it is another question as to who the Lord WANTS to do the job.

Sometimes as a bishop I would just be sitting on the stand and a person would "light up" as it were- as if a spiritual spotlight was shined upon them- and I would ask the Lord what he wanted me to do for them, and I would receive definite impressions. Or I would make guesses- "Ok Lord- what do you want him for- YM 2nd Counselor? (No response) Sunday school president? (no response) Elder's Quorum Counselor? (Warming of the heart, tears to the eyes)- Ok Lord, Elder's quorum it is!!"

But clearly the Lord can bring ideas to your attention which you may have never thought about before.

But I am talking about much simpler things. For me, because of my philosophical background, I never asked the Lord if anything was "True" because he knew that I had no idea what that word meant. I just asked him what he wanted me to do- or mostly I would decide on a course of action and ask if it was right, and he would confirm or not confirm.

I think the Lord gives us plans of action- not esoteric explanations what the phrase "the church is true" means. Ask him if the course for you is right and he will tell you!

[Alvino]

Oh come on! Basic doctrine- the HG does not confirm negatives. He tells you when you are on the right path- not confirming you are on the wrong path

D&C 9

I'm not sure what you mean by 'confirming negatives'. That seems different from being on the right or wrong path. I'll try to respond anyways.

Let's see. The scripture you quoted says that if I ask whether something is right, and it is right, I will have a burning of the bosom within me. If it is not right I will have a stupor of thought that will make me forget what was wrong. I don't know how literally you take that forgetting thing but, unless you think I will have some sort of strong amnesia when I ask about what is wrong, it seems that gives as much a way to know whether something is right or wrong.

Plus, there are many ways to confirm what you take as a 'negative' in purely 'positive' terms:

Let's say I want to know from God if JS is not a prophet from God. The following seem pretty positive (again, shooting in the dark with regards to that term you use):

"Is the belief that JS was a false prophet correct?"

"Was Muhammad the last prophet from God?"

"Is the Catholic Church God's only Church?"

etc, all of which imply that JS was a false prophet. Really, pretty much any 'negative' can be put into a positive. None of this matters, though, if the HG does in fact give contradictory beliefs, whether we say them in 'positive' terms or not. For all I know, the HG can be telling me that JS was a prophet of God because I will arrive at the truth of Evangelicalism (Or maybe to the truth of Catholicism. Maybe to the truth of Islam.) faster by following that path.

[mfbukowski]

This isn't fully formulated so my apologies... But there seems to be another point that goes along with this discussion... And that is "how difficult is it to know what the HG is telling you."

The more one slides on the spectrum toward the idea that the HG gives highly personalized revelation, even to the point of sending people down paths that could be away for the church, but still for the betterment of the person (Canard's viewpoint)... this way has a HG that isn't extremely hard to understand. People are going all sorts of directions because the HG is sending people in all sorts of directions.

The more be slides the other way in that the HG inspires toward one set path... the more one view a HG that is more difficult to understand. People are going all sorts of directions because people are misunderstands/not listening to/or denying the promptings of the HG.

This is like asking how you know if the one you want to marry is the "right" one. Either she is or she isn't and either you know or you don't. There is no "Truth-o-meter" to tell you if she is "really" the "right" one or not. It's Alma 32- act on faith and see if the results are sweet.

[Alvino]

Thanks Brian,

To clarify, yes I do think God can communicate with many people in such a way that they are left with different, seemingly contradicting positions. But I also don't think it's quite as a black and white as Alvino wants me to make it. He keeps on insisting on me saying 'yes' or 'no' to his question. It doesn't have to be so simplistic.

Let me give a personal example:

- My wife believes Joseph was a false prophet and probably a fraudster. She has moved away from her Mormon beliefs and barely has a belief in any meaningful deity. Since stopping LDS activity her life is better. She serves more. She is happier. She is developing her personal talents and abilities more quickly. She is climbing the mountain by a different path, but still climbing up. She is still on the path towards godliness but is using a different (but personally more effective) vehicle. The difference is tangible.

- I believe Joseph is not a false prophet. I believe he is a true prophet, though my perspectives on what that means may be slightly different to the orthodox Mormon view. I continue to embrace his big-picture view of eternal plan and the scriptures he was used to deliver. I consider my life to be better when I embrace them.

- My daughter believes Joseph to be a true prophet in the straight and simple way that we have taught her from the church curriculum. This helps her accept and adopt the principles of the gospel in the simple manner that is helpful to her and her learning process.

So... I consider him a true prophet. My wife considers him a false prophet. I see the hand and influence of God (I assume via the Holy Spirit) in both of our lives. I don't fully know the messages my wife received from the heavens to help her reach the conclusions she has. But I do not believe she has been deceived or mislead. It might appear be a contradiction. But I'm comfortable with the outcome.

You see, Brian 2.0, how he continues to miss the point? "Seemingly contradicting positions" are not the issue. "It might appear to be a contradiction." Or, "I see the hand and influence of God in both of our lives". Do you think these address the issue, Brian, when the question is about contradictions?

Edited April 16, 2013 by Alvino

[mfbukowski]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'confirming negatives'. That seems different from being on the right or wrong path. I'll try to respond anyways.

Let's see. The scripture you quoted says that if I ask whether something is right, and it is right, I will have a burning of the bosom within me. If it is not right I will have a stupor of thought that will make me forget what was wrong. I don't know how literally you take that forgetting thing but, unless you think I will have some sort of strong amnesia when I ask about what is wrong, it seems that gives as much a way to know whether something is right or wrong.

Plus, there are many ways to confirm what you take as a 'negative' in purely 'positive' terms:

Let's say I want to know from God if JS is not a prophet from God. The following seem pretty positive (again, shooting in the dark with regards to that term you use):

"Is the belief that JS was a false prophet correct?"

"Was Muhammad the last prophet from God?"

"Is the Catholic Church God's only Church?"

etc, all of which imply that JS was a false prophet. Really, pretty much any 'negative' can be put into a positive. None of this matters, though, if the HG does in fact give contradictory beliefs, whether we say them in 'positive' terms or not. For all I know, the HG can be telling me that JS was a prophet of God because I will arrive at the truth of Evangelicalism (Or maybe to the truth of Catholicism. Maybe to the truth of Islam.) faster by following that path.

Yeah that's the point. It's all verbal hogwash you can interpret any way you like. Try to hear the spirit of what is meant without pulling out Logic 101 silliness.

You need to use this talent at seeing all sides to see both sides of this as well. Another symptom of black and white thinking.

Did you even see the Rorty video?

What theory of truth do you subscribe to or don't you know what that means?

[Alvino]

That's because you talk as if truth is some objective thing out there- some great dualistic divide independent of linguistic propositions.

Then you have been misunderstanding the vast majority of metaphysics, philosophy of language, and epistemology. There is no truth without propositions. That's widely accepted and most people who accept that are not lead to pragmatism

Truth is a property of a given proposition within a context- that's all it is.

Which means truth is a function of both, propositions and contexts. We all accept that, mf. The truth of "Peter has a hat" depends on the proposition that statement expresses and whether Peter has a hat.

It always depends on what is meant, not some grand floating vision of TRVTH in the sky.

Now you are betraying yourself. The truth of "Peter has a hat" doesn't depend only on what the proposition expresses but on whether or not Peter has a hat.

You say an awful lot about truth without saying what you mean by it.

Hope it's clearer.

Edited April 16, 2013 by Alvino

[mfbukowski]

I'm not sure what you mean by 'confirming negatives'. That seems different from being on the right or wrong path. I'll try to respond anyways.

Just read the scripture. Study it out and ask if it is right. If it is you will get confirmation. If you don't you don't. You gotta go with what works for you personally.

Quit stressing about it and do what your heart tells you. It's as simple as that. You are confusing yourself.

[Ahab]

Notice how some people misunderstand thoughts from other people even when they have those other people's words to look at.

It's right there in black and white and yet some people still don't understand. And even when they ask questions and get more words from those other people they still sometimes don't understand.

And also notice how those people are asking other people about how to correctly understand what the Holy Ghost says even when knowing he people they're asking are not the Holy Ghost.

Maybe they should be asking the Holy Ghost for more clarification, instead? Maybe? Or will they still not correctly understand?

[wenglund]

I think the Lord gives us plans of action- not esoteric explanations what the phrase "the church is true" means. Ask him if the course for you is right and he will tell you!

...kind of like asking for wisdom (as per James 1:5)

I think the same thing can be accomplished with Moroni 10:4-5 as long as verse 3 is included in the mix.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[Brian 2.0]

It's Alma 32- act on faith and see if the results are sweet.

But that's a bit of the problem... I have acted on "faith" in leaving full belief and changing my worldview to a fairly atheistic one. And the results have been sweet. Not sweet in a "sin if fun" way, but I really feel increased love for my fellow man and all our plights here on earth, I cherish the time I have with loved ones more, etc.

So what to make of that? Does Alma 32 apply to me in this?

Edited April 16, 2013 by Brian 2.0

[mfbukowski]

There is no truth without propositions

I have been saying that repeatedly.

Now you are betraying yourself. The truth of "Peter has a hat" doesn't depend only on what the proposition expresses but on whether or not Peter has a hat or not.

Yes, so? What relevance does any of this have to the discussion? Did you watch the Rorty video?

[Ahab]

But that's a bit of the problem... I have acted on "faith" in leaving full belief and changing my worldview to a fairly atheistic one. And the results have been sweet. Not sweet in a "sin if fun" way, but I really feel increased love for my fellow man and all our plights here on earth, I cherish the time I have with loved ones more, etc.

So what to make of that? Does Alma 32 apply to me in this?

In what way do you think you have acted on "faith" ? Faith from who? Faith in what?

[mfbukowski]

Here are the views of some of the prophets and leaders of our church on those other faiths you so quickly seem to dismiss:

Elder Orson F. Whitney of the Quorum of the Twelve (April 1928)

The above was requoted by President Benson and he also said:

https://www.lds.org/...saints?lang=eng

Elder B.H. Roberts of the Seventy

http://www.lds.org/e...hammad?lang=eng

The first presidency (under President Kimball) in 1978 said:

https://www.lds.org/...estion?lang=eng

Elder Uchtdorf said:

http://rsc.byu.edu/a...-cultural-world

Wow that's a saver!