Does Being Lds Limit One'S Political Persuasions?

[The Nehor]

Actually the Constitution does say that we have to pay our debts. We didn't default on either Revolutionary War debt, or on any debt since. Thought we do now have a certain political party that is demanding that we don't pay our bills.

True. It makes no mention of size. We are guaranteed proportional representation in the House, with the minimum being one, and just two Senate members.

There was no balance of power between the States and the Federal government mentioned in the Constitution. In fact just the opposite the Feds always are the Supreme law of the land.

I've always liked the Onion.

Actually we did default both under the articles of confederation and the constitution because we were broke.

The federal supremacy amendment only applied to the power specifically delegated to the federal government. All other powers are explicitly given to the states. It is true that there was no explicit balance laid out but those who created the system knew it was there. Read the Federalist Papers and you can find lots of fun stuff about this.

[thesometimesaint]

Democracy is loud, noisy, rough, and tumble business. But I prefer to any other form of government, until Christ comes back. We are a Republic, if we can keep it.

[thesometimesaint]

Actually we did default both under the articles of confederation and the constitution because we were broke.

The federal supremacy amendment only applied to the power specifically delegated to the federal government. All other powers are explicitly given to the states. It is true that there was no explicit balance laid out but those who created the system knew it was there. Read the Federalist Papers and you can find lots of fun stuff about this.

No. We didn't default, the debts of the Revolutionary War were transferred from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution by Hamilton.

There is no federal supremacy amendment it is within the main body of the Constitution.

I've read the Federalist Papers. Please point out to me where it has this supposed balance.

Edited January 17, 2013 by thesometimesaint

[The Nehor]

No. We didn't default, the debts of the Revolutionary War were transferred from the Articles of Confederation to the Constitution by Hamilton.

And eventually we paid them once we got the money together. At first we did not.....mostly because we did not have any money to pay with.

[thesometimesaint]

And eventually we paid them once we got the money together. At first we did not.....mostly because we did not have any money to pay with.

True. It also took several years to pay for our WW2 debt. But we did do it, and ran a surplus under Clinton.

[The Nehor]

True. It also took several years to pay for our WW2 debt. But we did do it, and ran a surplus under Clinton.

The difference is we never defaulted on our loans for WW2. Money was tight but we made payments on time.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

You can be what ever you want. An anarchist or a marxist socialsit or a communist. I dont think there is a temple recommend question as to what your political preference.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't recall one either.

[Saints Alive]

True. It also took several years to pay for our WW2 debt. But we did do it, and ran a surplus under Clinton.

a budgetary surplus, not a debt surplus.

[thesometimesaint]

The difference is we never defaulted on our loans for WW2. Money was tight but we made payments on time.

The Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson administrations were boom years. So money wasn't tight at all. Plus add in that right now we can barrow money at less than 0% interest, if you factor in inflation. Which defies all economic sense.

[Saints Alive]

Plus add in that right now we can barrow money at less than 0% interest

Especially since technically there is no such thing as less than 0%

[teddyaware]

Please be specific. Show me where being in debt is against the Constitution. Actually the debt is coming down after 8 years of unpaid for tax cuts, two unpaid for wars, and a unpaid for prescription drug plan. It will collapse if we don't pay our bills. BTW Not paying our bills is against the Constitution.

So you're fine with slavery; only white, landowning, men over 21 years of age being allowed to vote.

In 1833 the Bill of Rights was interpreted to mean to only apply to the Federal government, not the individual States.

16+ trillion dollars of debt is against common sense and reason. Ever hear of the dictum, not commanded in all things? History should have taught the voters and the politicians that massive debts can be just as destructive as standing armies. The scriptures also set forth the principles of wise, provident living. But the reasoning of the Lord has been cast aside now, and so we are about to reap the whirlwind as a consequense.

There would have been no need for an amendment to end slavery if some of the people of this country been spiritually sensitive enough to hear the voice of the Lord's inspiration in the Declaration of Independence and the original Constitution,

The Lord commanded his people in this dipensation to live the law of consecration, and they failed even though it was the Lord's will. It was the Spirit of the Lord who inspired the founders to declare "all men are created equal." But like the early Latter-day Saints, they too failed to live up to the clear meaning of their founding documents. In fact, the Declaration was a death sentence to slavery. Unfortuately, it took natural men too long to act on and impliment the clear meaning of that sacred dictum, and the nation paid a very severe price as a consequence.

[The Nehor]

The Eisenhower, Kennedy, Johnson administrations were boom years. So money wasn't tight at all. Plus add in that right now we can barrow money at less than 0% interest, if you factor in inflation. Which defies all economic sense.

I agree. The debt was a burden during the war and immediately afterwards (hence constant calls to buy war bonds) but once most everyone was home we had a big economic boom and it was pretty easy from there on out.

[thesometimesaint]

a budgetary surplus, not a debt surplus.

To be more accurate. Any time you spend less than you take in it is a surplus. Whether you have a mortgage or not.

[The Nehor]

16+ trillion dollars of debt is against common sense and reason. Ever hear of the dictum, not commanded in all things? History should have taught the voters and the politicians that massive debts can be just as destructive as standing armies. The scriptures also set forth the principles of wise, provident living. But the reasoning of the Lord has been cast aside now, and so we are about to reap the whirlwind as a consequense.

That I agree with but you stated it was unconstitutional. It is not. It is just stupid.

[thesometimesaint]

I agree. The debt was a burden during the war and immediately afterwards (hence constant calls to buy war bonds) but once most everyone was home we had a big economic boom and it was pretty easy from there on out.

Agreed.

[DavidB]

Does being LDS Limited One's Political Persuasions:

Well, it shouldn't, at least according to this author in the Deseret News. I like the points that he brought up. It needs to be said.

If you are unfortunate enough to have a "priesthood" leader bent on promoting his own beliefs, then yes, your priesthood leader will limit your political persuasions for you; despite the fact that The Church is political neutral.

[teddyaware]

That I agree with but you stated it was unconstitutional. It is not. It is just stupid.

I don't think I said it was unconstitutional (show me if I'm wrong, so I can correct myself). What I believe I said is that if the Federal Govenment stayed strictly within the limits of its few and specific inumerated powers, there would be little chance we'd wind up in the mess we're in today.

[thesometimesaint]

16+ trillion dollars of debt is against common sense and reason. Ever hear of the dictum, not commanded in all things? History should have taught the voters and the politicians that massive debts can be just as destructive as standing armies. The scriptures also set forth the principles of wise, provident living. But the reasoning of the Lord has been cast aside now, and so we are about to reap the whirlwind as a consequense.

There would have been no need for an amendment to end slavery if some of the people of this country been spiritually sensitive enough to hear the voice of the Lord's inspiration in the Declaration of Independence and the original Constitution,

The Lord commanded his people in this dipensation to live the law of consecration, and they failed even though it was the Lord's will. It was the Spirit of the Lord who inspired the founders to declare "all men are created equal." But like the early Latter-day Saints, they too failed to live up to the clear meaning of their founding documents. In fact, the Declaration was a death sentence to slavery. Unfortuately, it took natural men too long to act on and impliment the clear meaning of that sacred dictum, and the nation paid a very severe price as a consequence.

Sure it sounds like a lot of money, and it is to the individual. But to a $100 trillion plus economy. Not so much. Kinda like if you were a millionaire, but a loaf of bread costs a million dollars you wouldn't be rich. We're no where near that. But the principle is still the same. It is the relationship of debt to income that matters most. That's why your individual and our governments credit rating is so important. It is all about our willingness and ability to pay our creditors.

What wise economic principles that applied over the millenia would that be? We have been counseled not to go into any debt, and that some debt is acceptable.

I agree with keeping as little debt as possible, but a little debt allows you to purchase goods you need right now in exchange for that debt. That helps not only ourselves but helps the greater economy as well. IE; Few of us can afford to plunk down several $100 thousands at once for a home to live in. So we take out a mortgage and pay it off over time.

The South was every bit as spiritually in tune as the North. Even today the South is more religious than the rest of the country. The South just didn't consider blacks as human beings deserving of respect or rights. They were bought and sold as property. No better than cattle and deserving of their treatment. Today treating animals like the blacks were treated will get you into jail. What the Founders, like Jefferson(Slaveholder), did was kick the can down the road so the South would join our more perfect union. I'm not blaming them. They just thought forming our union was more important.

The gospel has us to treat others as we would be treated. We all come to this earth having different talents and abilities. We will be rewarded for how well we magnified those talents and abilities. There is only one this equal about it. Our ability to receive exaltation. In our form of government we are to be equal to the requirements of the law.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't think I said it was unconstitutional (show me if I'm wrong, so I can correct myself). What I believe I said is that if the Federal Govenment stayed strictly within the limits of its few and specific inumerated powers, there would be little chance we'd wind up in the mess we're in today.

The 10th Amendment never granted such a prohibition

. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

[teddyaware]

Sure it sounds like a lot of money, and it is to the individual. But to a $100 trillion plus economy. Not so much. Kinda like if you were a millionaire, but a loaf of bread costs a million dollars you wouldn't be rich. We're no where near that. But the principle is still the same. It is the relationship of debt to income that matters most. That's why your individual and our governments credit rating is so important. It is all about our willingness and ability to pay our creditors.

What wise economic principles that applied over the millenia would that be? We have been counseled not to go into any debt, and that some debt is acceptable.

I agree with keeping as little debt as possible, but a little debt allows you to purchase goods you need right now in exchange for that debt. That helps not only ourselves but helps the greater economy as well. IE; Few of us can afford to plunk down several $100 thousands at once for a home to live in. So we take out a mortgage and pay it off over time.

The South was every bit as spiritually in tune as the North. Even today the South is more religious than the rest of the country. The South just didn't consider blacks as human beings deserving of respect or rights. They were bought and sold as property. No better than cattle and deserving of their treatment. Today treating animals like the blacks were treated will get you into jail. What the Founders, like Jefferson(Slaveholder), did was kick the can down the road so the South would join our more perfect union. I'm not blaming them. They just thought forming our union was more important.

The gospel has us to treat others as we would be treated. We all come to this earth having different talents and abilities. We will be rewarded for how well we magnified those talents and abilities. There is only one this equal about it. Our ability to receive exaltation. In our form of government we are to be equal to the requirements of the law.

In 2011 the gross national product of the US was 15 trillion. Where did you get the 100 trillion figure from? I ask respectfully because I'm just curious to know.

[thesometimesaint]

The economy is far more than just the GNP.

[teddyaware]

The economy is far more than just the GNP.

Please explain this, and be specific, accurate and provide an actual documented figure so that I can learn.

[teddyaware]

The economy is far more than just the GNP.

From the Wall Street Journal:

"The actual liabilities of the federal government—including Social Security, Medicare, and federal employees' future retirement benefits—already exceed $86.8 trillion, or 550% of GDP. For the year ending Dec. 31, 2011, the annual accrued expense of Medicare and Social Security was $7 trillion. Nothing like that figure is used in calculating the deficit. In reality, the reported budget deficit is less than one-fifth of the more accurate figure."

[Saints Alive]

The economy is far more than just the GNP.

Call me stupid but what is "GNP"? I assume you meant GDP?