The Ultimate God?

[inquiringmind]

I'm told be a reliable authority that this is from an unpublished manuscript of BH Roberts, almost in a church manual:

"This Light then, the Light of Truth and named for us men "the Light of Christ"--"which proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space,"--is also God, even the Spirit of God, or of the Gods, for it proceeds forth or vibrates, or radiates from all the Gods--from all who have partaken of the One Divine Nature--hence "the God of all other Gods"--mentioned by our Prophet of the New Dispensation (Doc. and Cov. sec. cxxi) "the God of Gods," "the Lord of Lords," proceeding from MANY yet ONE! Incarnated in all personal Deities, yet proceeding forth from them, to extend the one God into all space that He might be in and through all things; bearing all the powers in earth and sun and stars; world-sustaining power and guiding force. Bearing all the mind and spiritual attributes of God into the immensity of space, becoming God everywhere present-- omni-present; and everywhere present with power--omnipotent; extending everywhere the power of God; also All-Knowing; All-Seeing; All-Hearing--Omniscient! Bearing forth in fact all the attributes of Deity: Knowledge, Wisdom, Judgment, Truth, Holiness, Mercy--every characteristic or quality of all Divine Intelligences--since they are one; and this Divine Essence of spirit becoming "the Light which is in all things, that giveth life to all things which is the law by which all things are governed, even the POWER of God, who sitteth upon His throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." United in this Divine Essence, or Spirit is the mind of all Gods; and all the Gods being incarnations of this Spirit, become God in unity; and by the incarnation of this Spirit in Divine Personages, they become the Divine Brotherhood of the Universe, the ONE GOD, though made of many. "

(As quoted in gosplink.com)

Could this God of Gods, "Incarnated in all personal Deities," be the source and ground of spirit, matter, element, intelligence, and all existence?

Edited December 12, 2012 by inquiringmind

[treeface]

Could this God of Gods, "Incarnated in all personal Deities," be the source and ground of spirit, matter, element, intelligence, and all existence?

I think so, but then I'm no B.H. Roberts.

The concept of a greater "one" that is made of "many" wherein the whole is greater than the sum of the parts, may seem odd at first, but is all around us in nature. Consider for instance the human body, composed of many molecules (most of which are made up of many atoms) united to form living cells, which are life forms, which in turn combine to form tissues and organs and finally the complete body - the whole of which is vastly greater than the sum of its molecular or atomic parts.

Remember also that the information we have in the scriptures is really only looking at a small part of the great whole. We get a hint of what's outside our "box" in Section 130 of the Doctrine & Covenants, verses 8-10 (insertion and emphasis mine):

"The place where God resides is a great Urim and Thummim.

"This earth, in its sanctified and immortal [Celestial] state, will be made like unto crystal and will be a Urim and Thummim to the inhabitants who dwell thereon, whereby all things pertaining to an inferior kingdom, or all kingdoms of a lower order, will be manifest to those who dwell on it; and this earth will be Christ's.

"Then the white stone mentioned in Revelation 2:17, will become a Urim and Thummim to each individual who receives one, whereby things pertaining to a higher order of kingdoms will be made known."

So beyond the highest level we know of, the Celestial, there is a higher order of kingdoms (plural)! I wouldn't be surprised if B.H. Roberts is in the ballpark with his description.

Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface

[treeface]

A few further thoughts, if I may. We see a progression of kingdoms in this world, each one made up of an ordered collection of constituents from one of the lower kingdoms. We have the sub-atomic kingdom, the atomic kingdom, the molecular kingdom, the mineral kingdom, the single-cell kingdom, the plant kingdom, the animal kingdom, and the human kingdom (the latter three all being made up of an ordered collection of single cells). And if B.H. Roberts is correct, somewhere at the far end of this pattern of progression, is the Ultimate God.

Okay rewinding a bit, what is the next level above the kingdom of man (the human kingdom)? It is the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of the Elohim. Hmmm. "Elohim" is a plural word. Maybe an Elohim is made up of multiple very advanced humans? Like a quorum at the Celestial level? I think there's probably more to it, but that may be a start. A very interesting exploration of what might constitute this "next step" is found in JJ Dewey's book The Molecular Relationship.

Something fascinating from early Church history comes to mind: The Kirkland temple dedication experience. What I was taught in church classes was that different quorums were meeting in different rooms, and Joseph Smith was going from room to room, "organizing" the different quorums. When he finally got them all right, all in their proper order (whatever that means), what happened next was probably the most amazing documented event in all of American religous history. A bright light, like a fire, came down from the heavens and lighted up the temple, and it was seen by outsiders as well, to the extent that it was reported the next day by the local newspaper than the temple had burned! Meanwhile inside, people were seeing visions and conversing with angels. I would really like to know exactly what Joseph did to so perfectly "organize" those quorums. I don't think anything like that has happened in modern times. I think Joseph somehow took them to the next level. Just my opinion of course.

Edited December 12, 2012 by treeface

[mfbukowski]

Could this God of Gods, "Incarnated in all personal Deities," be the source and ground of spirit, matter, element, intelligence, and all existence?

Sounds kinda Hindu to me. I think old BH got a bit carried away.

But if it floats your boat I suppose there's no harm in it.

Edited December 12, 2012 by mfbukowski

[Bart Burk]

I'm told be a reliable authority that this is from an unpublished manuscript of BH Roberts, almost in a church manual:

"This Light then, the Light of Truth and named for us men "the Light of Christ"--"which proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space,"--is also God, even the Spirit of God, or of the Gods, for it proceeds forth or vibrates, or radiates from all the Gods--from all who have partaken of the One Divine Nature--hence "the God of all other Gods"--mentioned by our Prophet of the New Dispensation (Doc. and Cov. sec. cxxi) "the God of Gods," "the Lord of Lords," proceeding from MANY yet ONE! Incarnated in all personal Deities, yet proceeding forth from them, to extend the one God into all space that He might be in and through all things; bearing all the powers in earth and sun and stars; world-sustaining power and guiding force. Bearing all the mind and spiritual attributes of God into the immensity of space, becoming God everywhere present-- omni-present; and everywhere present with power--omnipotent; extending everywhere the power of God; also All-Knowing; All-Seeing; All-Hearing--Omniscient! Bearing forth in fact all the attributes of Deity: Knowledge, Wisdom, Judgment, Truth, Holiness, Mercy--every characteristic or quality of all Divine Intelligences--since they are one; and this Divine Essence of spirit becoming "the Light which is in all things, that giveth life to all things which is the law by which all things are governed, even the POWER of God, who sitteth upon His throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." United in this Divine Essence, or Spirit is the mind of all Gods; and all the Gods being incarnations of this Spirit, become God in unity; and by the incarnation of this Spirit in Divine Personages, they become the Divine Brotherhood of the Universe, the ONE GOD, though made of many. "

(As quoted in gosplink.com)

Could this God of Gods, "Incarnated in all personal Deities," be the source and ground of spirit, matter, element, intelligence, and all existence?

Sounds like the philosophies of men without mingled scripture.

[Darren10]

Could this God of Gods, "Incarnated in all personal Deities," be the source and ground of spirit, matter, element, intelligence, and all existence?

I think you citation of BH Roberts is the type of metaphysical mumbo jumbo which make the creeds so confusing.

Edited December 12, 2012 by Darren10

[The Nehor]

I imagine God finds it really adorable when we try to reason this stuff out.

[treeface]

The language that B.H. Roberts uses sure does sound like new-age-speak, replete with the mumbo and the jumbo, doesn't it? But where have we heard that sort of language before? Hmmm...:

"He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth of truth; which truth shineth. This is the light of Christ. As also he is in the sun, and the light of the sun, and the power thereof by which it was made.

"As also he is in the moon, and is the light of the moon, and the power thereof by which it was made; as also the light of the stars, and the power thereof by which they were made; and the earth also, and the power thereof, even the earth upon which you stand.

"And the light which shineth, which giveth you light, is through him who enlighteneth your eyes, which is the same light that quickeneth your understandings; which light proceedeth forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space—

"The light which is in all things, which giveth life to all things, which is the law by which all things are governed, even the power of God who sitteth upon his throne, who is in the bosom of eternity, who is in the midst of all things." (D&C 88:6-13)

In case anybody missed a few, according to these verses, Christ is:

1. In and through all things

2. The light of truth

3. In the sun

4. In the light of the sun

5. In the power by which the sun was made

6. In the moon

7. The light of the moon

8. The power by which the moon was made

9. Either is, or is in, the light of the stars

10. Either is, or is in, the power by which the stars were made

11. Either is, or is in, the earth

12. Either is, or is in, the power of the earth

13. Either is, or is in, the light which shines, which enlightens our eyes and quickens our understanding

14. Either is, or is in, the light that proceeds forth from the presence of God to fill the immensity of space

15. Either is, or is in, the light which is in all things

16. Either is, or is in, the light which gives life to all things

17. Either is, or is in, the light which is the law by which all things are governed (!!!) (quantum mechanics, super strings, Grand Unified Theory, anyone??)

18. Either is, or is in, the power of God, who is in "the bosom of eternity" (transcends time?), and who is in the midst of all things

Maybe Apostle B.H. Roberts is in pretty good company after all.

Edited December 13, 2012 by treeface