Damien the Leper Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 This is a trailer for a book that recently came out. I think it would be an interesting read because of the journey the man takes.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Valentius:Love the sinner hate the sin.
Damien the Leper Posted October 16, 2012 Author Posted October 16, 2012 Valentius:Love the sinner hate the sin.That overly simple phrase completely misses the point of our humanity and the sanctity within it.
Saints Alive Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 That overly simple phrase completely misses the point of our humanity and the sanctity within it.I think it rings hollow. A lot of people say 'hate the sin, but love the sinner' but in practice it doesn't happen. Even beyond homosexuality, I have seen it in may wards and communities. Its in the indirect comments, the passive-agressive actions, etc. I don't think we can blame the church or any group, its just a part of our carnal nature.
thesometimesaint Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 That overly simple phrase completely misses the point of our humanity and the sanctity within it.The call to Christ like behavior is not easy. We are to repent of all sin, including that of homosexual activity, and thinking ourselves better than our fellow beings because we sin differently. Moreover our job isn't to make the burdens of our fellow beings harder to bear, but to help lighten the load wherever we can. 1
Damien the Leper Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 But you rely on a self asserting authority to determine what is correct. Such a perspective lacks conscience that is clearly demonstrated by the author. I didn't post this to start a debate. I posted it to show a person's own faith journey from an archaic and bigoted paradigm to something new and which works for him and countless others. If you wish to discuss sin and how certain religious communities define and determine sin then we should take that to the general discussions.
thesometimesaint Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Valentinus:Sure it would be very easy to claim that certain sins aren't sins, or that there are no sins. Viola, like magic, everyone feels so much better about themselves. So modern. So progressive. Why didn't I think of that? No one would be allowed to sin, because there are no sins; all would return to God, and Satan would get all the glory. Sounds like a plan to me. NOT.
Saints Alive Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Valentinus:Sure it would be very easy to claim that certain sins aren't sins, or that there are no sins. Viola, like magic, everyone feels so much better about themselves. So modern. So progressive. Why didn't I think of that? No one would be allowed to sin, because there are no sins; all would return to God, and Satan would get all the glory. Sounds like a plan to me. NOT.Its even easier when you don't believe in a god or satan, "eat, drink, be marry, for tomorrow we die"
Damien the Leper Posted October 17, 2012 Author Posted October 17, 2012 Valentinus:Sure it would be very easy to claim that certain sins aren't sins, or that there are no sins. Viola, like magic, everyone feels so much better about themselves. So modern. So progressive. Why didn't I think of that? No one would be allowed to sin, because there are no sins; all would return to God, and Satan would get all the glory. Sounds like a plan to me. NOT.Its even easier when you don't believe in a god or satan, "eat, drink, be marry, for tomorrow we die"When did we allow religious practitioners of specific cultures determine what is sin? Because they say God said so?Because I'm an atheist doesn't automagically mean that I have lost all sense of right and wrong. Much to the contrary, I'm more capable of doing what is humanly right to help preserve life and to transcend the old paradigms and not fall victim to theocracy and oppression.If either of you are trying to assume anything out of my post that is clearly not there then I kindly ask you to stop projecting.
The Nehor Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 I think it rings hollow. A lot of people say 'hate the sin, but love the sinner' but in practice it doesn't happen. Even beyond homosexuality, I have seen it in may wards and communities. Its in the indirect comments, the passive-agressive actions, etc. I don't think we can blame the church or any group, its just a part of our carnal nature.I find in practice it does happen. It is just sadly usually only applied to oneself.Because I'm an atheist doesn't automagically mean that I have lost all sense of right and wrong. Much to the contrary, I'm more capable of doing what is humanly right to help preserve life and to transcend the old paradigms and not fall victim to theocracy and oppression.Of course not. It does not automagically happen. It just happened in your case. We are not generalizing here. Shouldn't you instead transcend incorrect paradigms. Or do paradigms rot with age?If you are worried about the western world falling into a theocracy then my response is: lol 1
thesometimesaint Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 When did we allow religious practitioners of specific cultures determine what is sin? Because they say God said so?Because I'm an atheist doesn't automagically mean that I have lost all sense of right and wrong. Much to the contrary, I'm more capable of doing what is humanly right to help preserve life and to transcend the old paradigms and not fall victim to theocracy and oppression.If either of you are trying to assume anything out of my post that is clearly not there then I kindly ask you to stop projecting.If my Atheist friends are right about no God or afterlife none of us will know any differently anyway.There very few if any things that are intrinsically evil. But religion is a very good way to assign responsibility for acts contrary to societal goods. IE; So eating pork, morally neutral, was considered a sin largely because pigs and people have very similar dietary needs. Thus in competition with us for scarce food resources in a desert environment. Did really God command it? I can see a reasonable reason for him to do so. But again if the Atheists are right it still performs a valuable societal good in that environment.My understanding(paradigm) of the Gospel is that we are not to condemn our fellow men, but to help lighten the burdens they carry. So any oppression is contrary to Gods' will. Add in the facts that such oppression seldom works, if ever long term, and that at best just produces hard feelings. It is hard to justify oppression by invoking theology. We are not the Westboro Baptist Church.That that young man found relief for his conscience for having condemned his friend is fine. What he did in wearing the others shoes for a year is commendable. However for him to determine that homosexual acts were no longer sinful is a step that I and my Church are not going to take. As I said earlier we are to love the sinner, but hate the sin.
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